Yeah, it actually does.   He's won three worlds series with that team and 100 games multiple times.   He's not some dumbass who doesn't know how to play the game.   He's removed all talent from that team and not replaced it.   The game is designed to create parity.    I honestly think one has to try lose 110.    That can be from neglect, complacency or direct effort.  

Nonetheless, if the world doesn't care, go for it.  Tanking works.   But don't be all surprised when the "Only need 8 to start" is met with no replies.   More and more worlds are moving towards MWR to remove that sort of nonsense.  And more and more owners are seeking worlds where 110 losses aren't commonplace.

And there's proof of what I just said.  

I'm not disagreeing with you.  And it may become a hard to fill world because of it.  Nobody likes playing in a world where one or two guys win 125 games every year.  I guess there is just cheating, tanking while playing within the rules and then obvious tanking (which could violate world rules).

I prefer MWR, it kind of caps the race to the bottom.  And in any world, you have the upper third trying to get to the top, the middle guys that are going nowhere, and the lower third that race to the bottom.

You can't race to the bottom in a multi-season MWR world.   Well, you can but it's not a very good idea.  I use 55/125/195/280 in mine.  F around all you want with 55, 70, 70 for three seasons.  Then, when you need 85 against teams that are trying to win, you can get bit in the ***.   Most of guys that miss it, miss it in S4. 

his AA team is better than his ML team.

Posted by indiansrck27 on 6/12/2012 6:30:00 AM (view original):
his AA team is better than his ML team.

Doesn't matter.  If the guys at AA are still progressing.

Players progress at the BL level.    "He's still progressing" is a cop out.   If they're on the 40 and they're better than players starting on the BL team, there is really no point in holding them back if they're 22+. 

I don't agree.  If my big league team cannot be helped into the playoffs or have a shot at a title of some kind, then young players that are still progressing are staying in the minors to do so.  I don't care if my minor league guy is currently better than the ML guy.  I would rather get three seasons at low payroll followed by climbing arb figures on the stud than play him with his clock ticking at the BL level before he is as good as he is going to be.  Unless he can push my ML team over the top now.

The fact they they progress at the BL level misses the point.  And calling it a cop out is just throwing your own moral code at it.  The reality is, it is not cheating and it is not against the rules to do so.  My only point in playing this game is to maximize my chances of winning at the BL level, and sometimes in order to do that you need to lose at the BL level first.  If you do this while avoiding obvious 'tanking' strategies, such as playing guys fatigued or out of position, it's well within the rules.

I understand what you are saying.  I just don't agree, and don't get wrapped up on nefarious moral codes.

I think we are looking at whether there is an effort to place a representative team on the field.    I had prospects that were a season away, and there was no game changer available in free agency.  But I still trolled the scrap heap, picked up million dollar and below stop gaps, and still was in the 70 win range until the cavalry was ready (5 prospects which almost all played 10+ ML years) to win 4 divisions in 5 years. 

If you have a guy who has four pro seasons and is on the 40-man roster, and he's better than the guy playing his position on the ML team, then he should be in the majors.

Less than four pro seasons, he doesn't need to be on the 40, and nobody can really blame you for not having him on your ML roster.

I know you don't agree.   And despite taking a 75 win team and doing this,

Hot Stove	OAK Athletics	18	$22.7M	57-105 (.352)	4	-
Hot Stove	OAK Athletics	19	$16.5M	66-96 (.407)	4	-
Hot Stove	OAK Athletics	20	-	67-88 (.432)	-	-
Totals/Averages	OAK Athletics	-	$13.1M	190-289 (.397)	4	0

I wouldn't be surprised if you really didn't feel that you were/are tanking(17m and 67 wins thru 155 this season).   But my point is simple.  You control a player for 11 seasons.   20 game call-up, 3 minimum salary, 2 arb, 5 year deal.   A 22 year old with be 32, and likely declining, when he MIGHT become a FA.    Holding him back when he's your best option and he's on your 40 is not giving your best effort.    Not giving your best effort is a version of tanking.

And, to be clear, if you have someone making 8m who is only slightly a lesser player than the guy you refuse to bring up, I don't really have a problem holding a player back.    But it's just dumb to say "He's still progressing" as if that's something that needs to be accounted for. 

We have had this argument before.  If you play within the rules, you play within the rules.  Tanking is a term that people have made up to soothe their own moral codes.  I have two responsibilities playing this game.  1) Play within the rules.  2) Make my major league team the best that it can be.  If that means I can play within the rules (and there are game rules and private worlds rules, mind you, you have to abide by all) and obtain the #1 pick in the draft because my team does not have a shot at the world series, then I do so.  If that means I run a 17M payroll and keep my ML team healthy and playing in the right positions, then I do so.  They have actually won too many games this season and surprised me, but I won't break rules to better my draft status.

Just differing opinions is all.  There are aspects of playing the game that you consider and label tanking.  I could care less about tanking.  I care much more about playing by the rules, whether WiFS rules or private world rules.  I don't know why someone would "do the most they can to win" and keep a major league team hovering at the 60-85 win mark for seasons on end, never really having a chance to win it all.  I see it all the time, every world has those suckers that are taken in by the tanking argument and their teams are consistently mediocre.  Play by the rules, be terrible for a time and then enjoy your time at the top. 

Again, just my take on things.  I know you don't agree.  If you are having fun doing it that way, that is all that is important.

If you make the playoffs, you have a chance to win it all.  I've had the best record for 5-6 straight seasons in Hamilton.  I've won one WS during that time.   You know who beat me?  Somebody who didn't have as good a record but made the playoffs.