Posted by mezirah on 6/27/2012 4:04:00 PM (view original):

I can appreciate what you are saying. And trust me I am listening and absorbing as much info as you guys share.

I just dont understand. It seems to me once I get my team up and running as long as I pick up 1 good international prospect a year I should be okay to replace players. I just want to get the system running.

When you say I will have problems later on, I don't get it. If I control a guy to the point where he goes FA at 33, he's pretty much done anyways. Even on the decline, if he's good I'll want him. A lot of league leaders etc are 32, 33 years old. If you are saying I have 4 or 5 guys go FA at the same time, what difference is that on my payroll if I have to pay them all on contracts anyways. Are you saying the 'shock' factor may be overwhelming where I don't plan ahead and my payroll can't absorb a brand new influx of 5 guys wanting 6 mil on average, and I don't have the 30 mil to dish out? because I think budgeting for this is possible.

Posted by mezirah on 6/27/2012 3:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 6/27/2012 1:38:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mezirah on 6/27/2012 1:21:00 PM (view original):
Okay so putting a guy on my 40-man starts ticking away his ML seasons? Can't I delay the start of those 11 seasons Mike laid out?

I'm just asking because I'm in a unique position where I actually took over a team that was the product of tanking by former owners. I'm kind of making out on their misdeeds and I have good prospects. But I'd like to start my competitive play a couple of more seasons down the road.

Putting a guy on your 40 starts his option clock, not his arb clock.  The arb clock is triggered by putting him on the ML roster.

As long as you plan to promote the guy to the majors within three seasons of putting him on the 40, and never plan to demote him after he's on the ML roster, the option clock is less of a concern.  It's usually only a concern for the AAAA type players who tend to bounce back and forth between the minors and majors.

Well okay, so this is it right here. MikeT is stating 11 is the most control possible however I can tick off 3 option years as well so I'm looking at 14, and if 14 puts the guy at the end of his career, age 33, 34 or whatever why wouldn't I go this route If I am not ready to contend.

Bigal, still addressing me in the third person, nice. Yes I want to do the 'flood' affect. You got it right.

Posted by headpirate on 6/27/2012 4:21:00 PM (view original):
mezirah, I forgot where I read it in the thread, but I think you confused "option" years as adding to potential service years (the way I read what you wrote was that you could add the option years to the arb years and get 3 more years). If this is what you were saying and understanding, it is not correct. "Option" years simply allows you to send a player from ML back down to MiL without having to clear waivers. Once the "option' clock runs out, anytime you want to send a player back down you will have to send them through waivers. "Arbitration" years are ML years 3-5 where their contract is assessed based on the previous years stats. If you intend to control the player past their last arb year, you are encouraged to sign them to a long-term contract in that 5th season.

MikeT gave the formula. I will state again, I am still a newbie -- his advice is arrogance (but I like reading his stuff), but is also truth. You cant change the math. You can control (meaning service with the team and the value of their contract) for 11 seasons. After that, the player will leave and chase the big payday. If you have 5 hitting the market at same time, you will find that not only will the player NOT give you a home town discount, you will not be able to sign that many to their contract demands.

Also, I think you underestimate how effective and how many wins you can have with 3 stud All-Stars and average ML players.

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/27/2012 4:52:00 PM (view original):
Here's an example of a guy I kept in the minors, with a few BL AB sprinkled in, forever.  Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Norm Maurer    30 and finally getting some BL action.   I just always had someone I felt was better.

Posted by mezirah on 6/27/2012 4:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/27/2012 4:52:00 PM (view original):
Here's an example of a guy I kept in the minors, with a few BL AB sprinkled in, forever.  Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Norm Maurer    30 and finally getting some BL action.   I just always had someone I felt was better.

Ya he's a big leaguer. So you kept him in the minors just in case of a big injury or something? He looks to be good trade bait, especially with the low health I would have gotten rid of him.

I couldn't get value for him.   His fielding limited him to 1B/LF/RF where I always felt I had better players.   Keeping him on the 40 kept him on my team as insurance. 

Posted by mezirah on 6/27/2012 4:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by headpirate on 6/27/2012 4:21:00 PM (view original):
mezirah, I forgot where I read it in the thread, but I think you confused "option" years as adding to potential service years (the way I read what you wrote was that you could add the option years to the arb years and get 3 more years). If this is what you were saying and understanding, it is not correct. "Option" years simply allows you to send a player from ML back down to MiL without having to clear waivers. Once the "option' clock runs out, anytime you want to send a player back down you will have to send them through waivers. "Arbitration" years are ML years 3-5 where their contract is assessed based on the previous years stats. If you intend to control the player past their last arb year, you are encouraged to sign them to a long-term contract in that 5th season.

MikeT gave the formula. I will state again, I am still a newbie -- his advice is arrogance (but I like reading his stuff), but is also truth. You cant change the math. You can control (meaning service with the team and the value of their contract) for 11 seasons. After that, the player will leave and chase the big payday. If you have 5 hitting the market at same time, you will find that not only will the player NOT give you a home town discount, you will not be able to sign that many to their contract demands.

Also, I think you underestimate how effective and how many wins you can have with 3 stud All-Stars and average ML players.

I think gal said if i put them on my 40-man their options start ticking down, but not if I hold them back in aaa. i was confused when he started saying i really can't hold them in minors affectively, but you can.

Posted by mezirah on 6/27/2012 4:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bigal888 on 6/27/2012 3:56:00 PM (view original):
check out how deanod runs his teams or train or a few of the other long term owners (not me...I can't seem to figure out the winning ways).  These guys win consistently and have a real dynasty.  And they don't employ tanking methods.

I don't see tanking as fun at all or the way to go either. I just think I'm in a unique place where I had reigny as a previous owner and a couple of other real tankers. I'm just looking to make the most of what they did, and set up myself up for success. For now I see that as 'flooding' my major league in a couple of seasons. Maybe I'm wrong but I'll be evaluating today's points heavily. Thanks again.