How does this world stay filled?
8/28/2012 4:23 PM
Brian makes it difficult.
8/28/2012 4:25 PM
I would veto a deal only if it involved someone who has vetoed a similar deal if they have not then I dont.  Thats all.  If they are vocal to veto them then I am also vocal. 
8/28/2012 4:34 PM
Posted by tropicana on 8/28/2012 4:12:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/28/2012 4:09:00 PM (view original):
If you think those three deals, and your vetoed deal, are similar, brian may have a point about being persecuted.
The one is tolerable in the sense that at least the money was even.  The first one that went through was horrendous and was a straight up salary dump. Talent was not commensurate or equal. brian's deal sucked worse and was vetoed. But the consistency that brian is asking for and claiming he is bringing to the table is absolutely fabriacted. THAT is my point. My deal is, in reality, inconsequential except in the timeline of things -- it's pretty amazing to me that he creates this entire issue and then proposes that trade to SP and thinks it's ok.  

I did not creat the issue I did the exact same thing you and others have done in previous seasons.  Exactly. 

8/28/2012 4:37 PM
Posted by willsauve on 8/28/2012 4:23:00 PM (view original):
How does this world stay filled?
I'll say again, it's really a pretty competitive world.  You just have to know this will happen several times a season.   I didn't mind, and was a big participant, up until last season.   Everything has a shelf life.   Hamilton was 9 seasons for me. 
8/28/2012 5:18 PM
Posted by brianp87 on 8/28/2012 4:34:00 PM (view original):
I would veto a deal only if it involved someone who has vetoed a similar deal if they have not then I dont.  Thats all.  If they are vocal to veto them then I am also vocal. 

There's your moral high ground...

8/28/2012 5:21 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/28/2012 5:18:00 PM (view original):
Posted by willsauve on 8/28/2012 4:23:00 PM (view original):
How does this world stay filled?
I'll say again, it's really a pretty competitive world.  You just have to know this will happen several times a season.   I didn't mind, and was a big participant, up until last season.   Everything has a shelf life.   Hamilton was 9 seasons for me. 
And it will only get more competetive with the departure of the greatest owner of all time trop.  The loss of trop makes up for the loss of mike.
8/28/2012 5:40 PM
Posted by tropicana on 8/28/2012 5:21:00 PM (view original):
Posted by brianp87 on 8/28/2012 4:34:00 PM (view original):
I would veto a deal only if it involved someone who has vetoed a similar deal if they have not then I dont.  Thats all.  If they are vocal to veto them then I am also vocal. 

There's your moral high ground...

Interesting he wouldn't address this point....
8/28/2012 5:42 PM
Oh wait. No it isn't. Nor is it surprising.
8/28/2012 5:42 PM
Brain, thanks for starting this thread.  Really appreciate it....it's gonna help us a lot. 
8/29/2012 1:19 PM
The problem cannot be fixed if its not addressed.
8/29/2012 2:54 PM
Posted by brianp87 on 8/29/2012 2:54:00 PM (view original):
The problem cannot be fixed if its not addressed.
As I'm not part of Hamilton any more, and am not in a world with you brian, mercifully, I don't have to deal with you any more, so I'm not.

Out of deference to SP, who I really like, I recommend you delete as much of this thread as possible so that recruiting is easier next time around. You're not right, you're not IN the right, and you're still IN the world. That's not a good advertisment.
8/29/2012 3:17 PM
OK, dammit.  I figured there was another WC blow-up that prompted the bump of this thread.  Shocker, I was right.

Since my opinion is being discussed, here you go:
First, I get along well with trop and panda.  We don't see eye to eye on some things but I get along well, IMO, with both of them.  mrasso was accepted into MG so, while we don't have many exchanges, I accept/respect the way he plays.  As for brian, I sort of mentored him while he was learning but that went awry when I refused to evaluate a trade, his pitching staff or something in Hamilton when he joined.  To me, that's collusive and he got a boner for me because of it.  Nonetheless, we argued to the point of me blocking him because I just couldn't take the poor grammar and retarded reasoning.

Now, onto my opinion.
brian feels he's treated unfairly.  Maybe he is but he brought it on himself by making ridiculous offers to almost everyone on the world and playing "What did I do?" card after getting chastised for it.   I know he understands the game because he asked me HUNDREDS of questions before he joined Hamilton.  If he denies this, he's a liar.   However, he's asking for a consistent trade approval/veto policy.   panda says "Not possible."  I strongly disagree.   There are types of trades.  Classify them and say "Veto" or "Approve".   It works marvelously in MG.   That's not to say we don't have disputes but an "illegal" deal happens about once every 5 seasons or so.   It gets vetoed and we move on(in this season's case, without deano who stated "That's stupid.  Replace me").   And, for the record, the other owner in the deal immediately said "My bad.  I'd forgotten my 6 year minor league guy with options had cleared waivers."    That doesn't happen in Hamilton.  Ever.

I didn't look closely at panda's recent deals but, at a glance, they looked like legit deals with similar(this is important as that's the precedent that has been set over several seasons) current/future talent being moved.   He also cleared some cap space.   I MIGHT have vetoed them due to the heavy cash inclusion before FA started but that would have been my only objection.  That's a personal pet peeve of mine and no precedent has ever been set for that in Hamilton.  Therefore, if I vetoed, I'd have done so quietly.

By contrast, trop gave up a ton to mrasso a ton ot talent and got what appears to be a good prospect in return.  That's ENTIRELY acceptable in MG/Coop.  But a precedent has been set in Hamilton that the talent exchange has to be somewhat similar.  Similar talent is obviously a judgement call but, IMO, that deal crossed the line.  Veto.

Finally, brian keeps yapping about his deal that got vetoed last season.   Way worse than trop/mrasso's.  Much, much worse.  And given his propensity to prey on n00bs and his offering of crap deals, it should have gotten 30 vetoes.   Sometimes you make a bed for yourself and, when you do, your actions are viewed differently.   brian created a situation for himself where his deals are scrutinized just a bit more.   And, far too often, they don't stand up to the extra look.


Now, if anyone in Hamilton wants my opinion, and I don't know why they would, there it is.  I was very vocal in my 2nd-5th seasons on "fair trading"(there were a handful of n00brapers that I felt were holding back the world) but I tired of it.   Because, apparently, the trade process that goes pretty smoothly in my other worlds, just doesn't work in Hamilton. 
8/29/2012 3:25 PM
Posted by brianp87 on 8/29/2012 2:54:00 PM (view original):
The problem cannot be fixed if its not addressed.
Addressing a problem and running to the forums to showcase the tardness of yourself and your world is two totally different things.

Address the problem in private. Like a grown-up.
8/29/2012 3:59 PM
A couple more things about the parties involved.

brian loses all credibility when he LOUDLY vetoes a deal that he has attempted to make repeatedly and tries again.   However, if he wants a consistent veto policy, he at least has a leg to stand on.   Even if it's a policy that I'd disagree with completely(no vetoes).

After much of the noise I made early on, panda consulted me on a deal a n00b has proposed to him.  It wasn't an "unfair" deal but it weakened the n00b's future.  Short version is n00b needed a few hundred K to transfer to sign him #1 pick.   He was trading a decent BL player and a previous high pick for a cheaper BL player to clear the space. panda didn't give me the n00b's name or the players involved but it took about 10 seconds of detective work to figure out the owner.  So I looked at his roster and said "He could probably just run this guy thru waivers and get the cap space.  He's not a stud but he's useful.  He'll get claimed and the n00b won't lose a prospect to get a slightly better prospect."   panda suggested that to him and that's how it worked.  There was nothing in that proposed deal that was veto-worthy but it would not have been a good deal for world health and the n00b would not have learned something.  

To sum all that up, I think panda understands, and cares about, the overall health of the world.  That's why I was all in with him taking over as commish last season.  I don't think brian, or the former commish, care about anything but their own team.  Which is fine to an extent but, when you've got 8 openings with 6 of them being teams that were stripmined of all talent, don't be shocked when you play two seasons each calendar year.

I apologize in advance if panda didn't want that story told but he feels the world has been damaged by this thread.   I'm sure it doesn't help but I'm equally confident that silentpadna can sort it out and make the world better.  I think that story tells the readers a little something about how he plays the game and I believe it indicates how he'll commish.
8/29/2012 4:04 PM
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