You were correct that you were behind according to that scholly message.  This seems to be a constant thing now a days that people are reading way too much into the FSS Word on the Street.  If the last message you received from the Scholly Message was that you were behind, consider yourself behind until you get another saying he cant wait to sign with you, etc.

From my interpretation, It does seem a little weird that you did not receive an updated scholly message saying you were in the lead before they signed though.

Seems like a lot of weird things have been happening with recruiting in the past couple of months.

Thanks westcoast for verifying that I haven't been misinterpreting the scholarship message. Was really going to kick myself if I'd been throwing money away multiple seasons trying to buy kids that were already mine. The FSS thing wasn't so much about wanting to see where I stood on the scholarships, but since both had been "definitely leaning" toward the Sim schools when I began poaching process, I wanted to be sure I was making inroads with my effort. Had the FSS update and shown one still definitely leaning or some other message of non-neutrality, I'd have shifted all my effort to the other on the spot. The skip of the overnight FSS in Tark really had me flying blind on how far behind I stood and what impact the recruiting efforts were having on both targets.

I agree it's odd that there was no change-of-status message on the scholarships. I'm pretty sure I have had kids "sign from behind" when my competition is a Sim school, but usually that's only when I throw everything but the kitchen sink at a kid -- CV, multiple HV's, minutes and/or a start, all in the same cycle -- to blow the Sim out of the water. Clearly, the effort expended here didn't remotely approach that level, but I can live with not understanding that part of it. My biggest thing was making sure I wasn't misreading the scholarship message!

Couple of questions. 

1.  What day of recruiting was this for you?  The day after signings began I'm assuming, right?  If it is, then the fact that these battles ended at the 11am cycle the day after signings began tells me you were probably ahead at the 8am cycle.  You can be battling for a kid, but if you have a decent margin by that 11am cycle, then often these battles get resolved during that cycle and the kid signs with the school in the lead.  And there's just no way that 5 measly calls would put you from going behind to comfortably ahead in a battle, so much so that he would sign at 11am.  Usually only much tighter battles linger on and on and on. 

2.  Did you receive any scholly messages on the kids prior to the one you mentioned in the OP?  If so, what did they say.

I'm not so certain you were behind when you put in that HV and those calls to the 2 kids. 

Posted by jdno on 5/30/2012 9:58:00 PM (view original):
Couple of questions. 

1.  What day of recruiting was this for you?  The day after signings began I'm assuming, right?  If it is, then the fact that these battles ended at the 11am cycle the day after signings began tells me you were probably ahead at the 8am cycle.  You can be battling for a kid, but if you have a decent margin by that 11am cycle, then often these battles get resolved during that cycle and the kid signs with the school in the lead.  And there's just no way that 5 measly calls would put you from going behind to comfortably ahead in a battle, so much so that he would sign at 11am.  Usually only much tighter battles linger on and on and on. 

2.  Did you receive any scholly messages on the kids prior to the one you mentioned in the OP?  If so, what did they say.

I'm not so certain you were behind when you put in that HV and those calls to the 2 kids. 

1. You are correct, this was the day after signings began. I began my attempts to snipe the players during the 5 p.m. cycle the day of signings, they were resolved the 11 a.m. cycle the day after. 

2. Here's a listing of all scholarship messages received: 

5 p.m. -- Player A: "From the little I know of Shenandoah, it seems like you have a nice program, but honestly, I can't give you an answer yet. I just don't have all the information I need."
Player B: "Coach, you have a little more selling to do - don't get me wrong, you're close, but there are other schools that have indicated a possible interest in me."

8 p.m. -- Player A: No change
Player B: "Coach, I really appreciate you having enough faith in me to extend me a scholarship offer. I hope that you have enough faith to wait for me to visit some other schools - they really have made their programs sound great and to be honest, I need much more information before I can tell you yes or no."

11 p.m. -- Player A: "Coach, I'm really struggling right now - you have a nice program and the school is great, but it's such a big decision. I just need more time."
Player B: "It would be an honor to play for you at Shenandoah, but I'd also be honored to play for a couple of other schools too. I'm sorry, I just need more time."

2 a.m. -- Player A: "Hey coach, your scholarship offer really means a lot to me. I can see myself at Shenandoah next season. But, another school is promising me a way to make my own name for myself. That's awfully appealing. I just can't decide yet."
Player B: "If I had to give you an answer, I'd have to say no, but I just can't decide yet. I need more time. I'm sure you understand, right coach?"

5 a.m. -- Player A: No change
Player B: "Hey coach, your scholarship offer really means a lot to me. I can see myself at Shenandoah next season. But, another school is promising me a way to make my own name for myself. That's awfully appealing. I just can't decide yet."

8 a.m. -- No messages from either player. [Edit: just realized my OP in one spot says I received the messages here, it should have indicated it was the active/most recent message at this point.]

11 a.m. -- Both accept scholarship offers and sign with me. 

this is helpful.  All the messages seem pretty cryptic.  I think what would help round out the picture is some sort of summary of effort put forth into each kid in each cycle.  Like for Player B, going from the 2am to the 5am cycle, apparently a fair amount of effort was put forth, but exactly how much, and how much relative to how much effort you already had into the kid. 

It would also be helpful to know which cycle you showed up initially as being considered.

I'm not sure you want to take the time to find this tedious info and post it, so I understand if you don't.  In these examples, though, it may help put the pieces together.

For Player A, the 11pm response makes me think you were either slightly ahead or behind, then by the 2am cycle you pulled out in front.  So how much effort did you put into him that cycle vs. how much was already in him?

For Player B, similar sort of thing from 2am to 5am.  How much extra did you throw at him vs. what was already into him?

Sent you a sitemail jdno.

no! not sitemail! we want to know the answers to this too!

Player B: "It would be an honor to play for you at Shenandoah, but I'd also be honored to play for a couple of other schools too. I'm sorry, I just need more time."  - I think this message means you are about even, but definitely behind (just slightly behind).

for example, this message:
Coach, I'm really struggling right now - you have a great program and the school is fantastic, but it's such a big decision. I'm very close to making my decision though.

what do you guys think it means?


what about these two? (internationals :)
I just no say yes now - I still talk with another school. Me like you school more though. 
I receive scholarship papers in mail. Me need more information before I play basket.


i feel like people often say, don't believe the recruit, they are lying, they tell everyone they like them. and some cases, that is definitely true. but not all of them. it would certainly be an advantage to a coach to have them all identified, but it does take a decent amount of effort (its really not that bad, if i remember correctly, although i never finished).

i think the first one means you're ahead, maybe even comfortably

Intl#1:  Ahead
Intl#2:  Behind?

yeah, first one means comfortably ahead. that is the kind of message you get on a player who signs at 11 on day 3, not 8am day 4. 

internationals, the first definitely means ahead, but i dont know about the other. i had a player who had like 35K of international effort (which is a lot less than normal 35K, home visits are like 5X local). and on top, i did a start + 20m, and he went to the second message. now i understand, when 23 home visits is all you've done for 35K, then start + 20m is decently significant. maybe worth 10% more of your effort. but i was still surprised to go from the first message to the 2nd. i had expected the 2nd meant i was totally screwed, not a chance in hell. but obviously, that was not the case.

there are definitely messages, that i didn't post, where the player "lies" about how he feels, not wanted to tell a coach he likes, no. but there are also plenty like these, where it means the way it sounds if you try to read it highly positively. when the recruit talks about struggling, i'd typically think that meant bad shape. im struggling - you do have a good school - but its a big decision. doesn't sound like a clear 1st place any way i try to read it! its one of those messages i used to take badly, until i had started to track them. theres even one of the "on the fence" ones, the more positive of the 2, that i am almost positive is a 1st place message (and i don't think its the very slight first place message either, i think its the one better than that).

anyway, i think the OPs message is one of those, where you are ahead, but it doesn't necessarily sound like it... im not 100% sure, but reasonably confident. not at all surprised they signed at 11am, i don't think its the slightly leading message, i think its the category better than that, too (not as confident on that, but thats my best guess)

Appreciate the insight coach_billyg and thanks a bunch jdno -- really greatful to both of you!