Demands affected by awards? Topic

kahrtmen
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Do players that have won awards (MVP, CY, All-Star) demand more when they become free agents, all other things being equal?  I know some people think they do, but I can't find anything about this.  If it's true, then everyone should be rooting against their own players to win awards.
10/25/2010 6:33 PM
MikeT23
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I'm almost certain they do not.   Otherwise, we'd get some Comiskey-like shenanigans down the stretch.   Black Sox!!!

10/26/2010 9:25 AM
prezuiwf
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Actually, I am almost certain they do. I've never bothered to run any numbers on it, but I distinctly remember having discussions on the forum where people said that a player who has awards under his belt will at the very least increase his demands in arbitration. Obviously performance must have something to do with arb and FA demands, otherwise every player with an 83 overall rating would ask for exactly the same amounts of money. So why wouldn't awards factor into the equation? Frankly if they don't now, then they at least should in the future to make the game more realistic.
10/26/2010 9:57 AM
MikeT23
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Again, I see how that would open a complete barrel of monkeys.   Teams that fall out of the race would do well to bench all their good players in order to affect their numbers and keep salaries lower.   While I'm never surprised at poor decisions, this seems like one that would encourage activity that shouldn't be encouraged.  Also, I'm pretty sure WifS said stats did not affect arb/FA.   I've never tried but I doubt you can find two identical players in a world.  Therefore, it's no surprise that two similar players have different demands.
10/26/2010 10:15 AM
Crump123
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Posted by prezuiwf on 10/26/2010 9:57:00 AM (view original):
Actually, I am almost certain they do. I've never bothered to run any numbers on it, but I distinctly remember having discussions on the forum where people said that a player who has awards under his belt will at the very least increase his demands in arbitration. Obviously performance must have something to do with arb and FA demands, otherwise every player with an 83 overall rating would ask for exactly the same amounts of money. So why wouldn't awards factor into the equation? Frankly if they don't now, then they at least should in the future to make the game more realistic.
I suspect thats more than likely guys increasing in durability or soemthing and the contract value showing that increase, rather than an increase for an award, just like you see guys decrease demands over an off season when they decrease in durability even if they win an award. Either way, safe to say any salary change for an award if it exists is insignificant.
10/26/2010 10:22 AM
torrone
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A case in point that may indicate awards not having much to do with demands. [URL=http://www.whatifsports.com/hbd/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx?pid=1644791]Tanner Magnante[/URL]. Maganate is 31 and in the last year of a 5 year/$6.5M per contract. He has 1 MVP, 5 AS appearances, 3 1B Silver Sluggers, 2 AS MVPs, and a HR Derby win in 8 ML seasons. His demands for a new contract? $5.925M per/4 years. And I'll gladly pay it.
10/26/2010 10:27 AM
kahrtmen
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One player doesn't really prove or disprove the point, but that certainly lends credence to the argument that awards don't matter.  And for the record, arb demands definitely depend on performance and role.  From the sitestaff update on 10/6/09:

Arbitration demands will begin reflecting the player’s performance in addition to his ratings. For example, if he was moved to a back up role or out for an extended time with an injury, you won’t see his demands significantly increase.
10/26/2010 1:46 PM
dedelman
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Posted by kahrtmen on 10/26/2010 1:46:00 PM (view original):
One player doesn't really prove or disprove the point, but that certainly lends credence to the argument that awards don't matter.  And for the record, arb demands definitely depend on performance and role.  From the sitestaff update on 10/6/09:

Arbitration demands will begin reflecting the player’s performance in addition to his ratings. For example, if he was moved to a back up role or out for an extended time with an injury, you won’t see his demands significantly increase.
I think this is the only situation where performance affects demands.  As I see it, players that don't meet a certain appearance threshold don't ask for any increase at all, and everyone else asks for the same stat-independent amount they were asking for before.
10/26/2010 2:41 PM
jimmystick
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I have experienced it first hand that winnning awards DOES INCREASE ARBITRATION DEMANDS.  Here's my example:

Alex Sullivan, SP, Overall rating 79.
Jaime Butcher, SP, Overall rating 81
Quilvio Guardado, SP, overall rating 83.

In season 16 Sullivan won the Cy Young, and his arbitration demand in Season 17 was $1.7 Million, while Butcher, who is 2 overall points better only demanded $1.6 and Guardado, 2 points higher than Butcher and 4 higher than Sullivan demanded $2.0 Million.

In Season 17, Guardado won the Cy Young.  His arbitration demand skyrocketed to $8.4 million In Season 18, while Sullivan asked for $5.2M and Butcher $5.7M.

I believe, from this small sample size, that awards raises the arbitration price for the following season, but it doesn't appear to raise the price for subsequent seasons, because if it did, then Sullivan would have asked for more than Butcher in Season 18.
10/26/2010 3:01 PM
MikeT23
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Overall ratings are a poor point of reference.
10/26/2010 4:08 PM
wilhitec
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Posted by MikeT23 on 10/26/2010 4:08:00 PM (view original):
Overall ratings are a poor point of reference.
I always thought that overall rating was the primary driver of salary demands in ARB and F/A...am I wrong?
10/26/2010 4:10 PM
MikeT23
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It may be the primary but it's not the only factor.   All of us have had an 83 who sucked and a 68 who was fantastic.    I'm going to need a lot of examples of an 84, 83, 82, 81 having declining demands. 

10/26/2010 4:14 PM
kahrtmen
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I don't think wilhitec is saying that it's the primary driver of performance - just that it's the primary driver of arb and FA demands.  If they don't use overall ratings, what do they use to generate the demands?
10/26/2010 4:49 PM
MikeT23
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I can't say for sure.  But, in arb, I've noticed if your player asks for less than the league average for similar players, you may as well pay him.  If you offer him $1 less, you will lose the arb.   So, and I have ZERO actual proof to back this up, I think the world averages for similar players might play a role.   Now, maybe, they determine similar players with overall, I don't really know. 
10/26/2010 4:54 PM
kahrtmen
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Posted by MikeT23 on 10/26/2010 4:54:00 PM (view original):
I can't say for sure.  But, in arb, I've noticed if your player asks for less than the league average for similar players, you may as well pay him.  If you offer him $1 less, you will lose the arb.   So, and I have ZERO actual proof to back this up, I think the world averages for similar players might play a role.   Now, maybe, they determine similar players with overall, I don't really know. 
That's a good point - it may use the average salaries for that world to set a baseline.  That still wouldn't explain the example a few posts back.  All three of those pitchers were in the same world.
10/26/2010 6:14 PM
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