Tanking Topic

willsauve
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My Boston team is pretty horrible especially compared to the teams that are at the top of the leaderboards..

Is it blatant tanking for me to keep this guy Duffy in the minors until next season? I mean he's definately better than what I have at the ML level but 1B/DH is not whats killing my team.

I think at the very least I'm soft tanking by leaving him in the minors? If I felt that I needed to bring him up to reach the win floor I would. But I'm on pace to surpass it..
 

1/17/2012 3:21 PM
mongoose_22
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My general guideline on that is if the guy still has alot of developing to do, I can see leaving him in the minors to let him get close to fully developed. Duffy will still develop some, so I could see letting him finish out the season in the MILBs. But leaving him there much longer would get (IMO) questionable....

But what the hell do I know anyway?
1/17/2012 3:29 PM
tedwmoore
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Your team is about a 400 team, so not a terrible record. But that guy is quite a bit better than both your 1B and your DH, so you are costing your team runs and wins by keeping him in the minors. My thinking is this: if he is an improvement over your current players and he has enough durability to play every day, why keep him in the minors (other than to prevent yourself from winning more games)? The guy is already in his third year of development and is ready to be your everyday 1B. Plus, at this point, you are well past the arb clock threshold, so, really, there seems to be little gained by keeping hi in the minors where, I assume, your coaching is not as good.
1/17/2012 3:48 PM
shobob
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At 23, he's not going to be developing much more.  You are costing yourself wins at the ML level by keeping him in the minors.  If that means tanking, then yes you are tanking.
1/17/2012 3:53 PM
tecwrg
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Is it a multi-season win floor?  Would winning more games this season help you towards meeting the win minimums next season?
1/17/2012 3:54 PM
tedwmoore
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Posted by tecwrg on 1/17/2012 3:54:00 PM (view original):
Is it a multi-season win floor?  Would winning more games this season help you towards meeting the win minimums next season?
+1. Very good point.
1/17/2012 3:58 PM
iain
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Until you have to have them on the 40 to avoid the Rule 5, there's always the argument that you don't HAVE to bring him up...unless your 40 isn't full.

What's the downside to bringing him up?

If he's going to be on the team opening day next season, then bring him up anytime.  It won't impact his arb. clock.... if you're playing around with delaying his promotion next season, you're going to gain a year of controllability in his early 30s (assuming you sign him long term), which is going to be inferior to what he can give you right now, anyway... power is the first thing to go once he's on the wrong side of 30, and that's his biggest plus.

If anything, keeping him down might be impacting your ability to get a comp. pick for him later!
1/17/2012 4:01 PM
MikeT23
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Keeping players who aren't on the 40 in the minors isn't tanking in my book.  At least in and of itself.   You could be doing plenty of other things that are tanking but that one particular move is not. 

1/17/2012 4:03 PM
kcden
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I don't think it is necessarily tanking, but the more position players that I develop up from draft/IFA the more I realize that it makes less and less sense to hold them back to extend for an extra season of team control.  As iain said/implied, he is probably better now than he will be in your last season of team control if you keep him for max years (5 years of auto-resign/arb, 5 year Long Term Contract + whatever you get in his arbitration-"witholding season)), so basically not having him in the majors now is costing you wins and (most-likely) better coaching/better development.
Long-Story-Short, position players start to degrade disappointingly early in their lives, so its better to get what you can out of them while they're young.
1/17/2012 4:53 PM
crickett13
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The answer is no. Leave him there for 2 more seasons and the answer would be yes.
1/17/2012 5:56 PM
gjello10
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Posted by willsauve on 1/17/2012 3:21:00 PM (view original):

My Boston team is pretty horrible especially compared to the teams that are at the top of the leaderboards..

Is it blatant tanking for me to keep this guy Duffy in the minors until next season? I mean he's definately better than what I have at the ML level but 1B/DH is not whats killing my team.

I think at the very least I'm soft tanking by leaving him in the minors? If I felt that I needed to bring him up to reach the win floor I would. But I'm on pace to surpass it..
 

So now there's something called "soft tanking" that is both different from tanking, and from rebuilding, and we're all supposed to be able to distinguish the 3 without fighting over the definitions?  It's not tanking at this point.  Keep him down until 20 games into next season and you're fine. Longer than that, and you're probably treading pretty close to trouble.
1/17/2012 6:10 PM
travisg
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My thinking is this: if he is an improvement over your current players and he has enough durability to play every day, why keep him in the minors?

That's my thinking, as well. I always want to win more games vs. the alternative. I routinely keep top-quality players in the minors for 20 games to slow their arbitration/free agency clock, but it drives me crazy when owners leave stud players in the minors to squeeze an extra point or two of (possible) development out of them. I'd rather have the extra win or two than those points.
1/17/2012 6:12 PM
willsauve
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Posted by MikeT23 on 1/17/2012 4:03:00 PM (view original):

Keeping players who aren't on the 40 in the minors isn't tanking in my book.  At least in and of itself.   You could be doing plenty of other things that are tanking but that one particular move is not. 

I know what you mean.. My salary is pretty low.  I had money for FA's but the guys that were available were pretty much whatever guys that got over paid.  My biggest weakness is pitching and its pretty scarce in this world..

My plan is to bring him up 20 days into the season. If I can score a bunch of pitching through trade or FA I'll bring him up right away.

I'd like to trade him for a solid #1 SP but  doubt I can make it happen.
1/17/2012 6:24 PM
crickett13
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Posted by travisg on 1/17/2012 6:12:00 PM (view original):
My thinking is this: if he is an improvement over your current players and he has enough durability to play every day, why keep him in the minors?

That's my thinking, as well. I always want to win more games vs. the alternative. I routinely keep top-quality players in the minors for 20 games to slow their arbitration/free agency clock, but it drives me crazy when owners leave stud players in the minors to squeeze an extra point or two of (possible) development out of them. I'd rather have the extra win or two than those points.
Yes but squeezing out that extra point or two is personal preference not tanking.
1/17/2012 7:29 PM
crickett13
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Will the guys you are playing at 1B and DH are hitting .276 and .288 so they are respectable. If you were playing a guy who should never get above AA and was hitting .205 while this guy sat in your minors then you would be tanking. This is not tanking by any defenition.
1/17/2012 7:36 PM
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