Christy Mathewson picks a 1924 All Star team -more Topic

I found this article by Mathewson on the website baseball-fever.com, posted by someone named Bill Burgess who has very nicely and heroically typed the entire text of some once-famous old articles from Baseball magazine, Colliers and other publications, onto the site. 

italyprof

-------Christy Mathewson Picks an All-America Team for Collier's------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

A man who is known to every fan on earth here does for baseball what for years Walter Camp, writing in Collier's, has done for football. He has reviewed the season just closing and named the men who, in his opinion, have proved themselves the greatest in their respective positions on the diamond. He has chosen two teams - a first and a second. We'd go a long way to see a series of games between them.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------Collier's, the National Weekly, for October 11, 1924


In choosing the All-America Baseball Team for 1924, I am assuming the role of a manager with the material of both major leagues at his command and a baseball game to play. I am assuming the game is to be played under conditions and with equipment typical of the season of 1924 and that the characteristics of that season will still predominate. 

Before I can proceed to the formation of the strongest possible combination from the players at my disposal, it is imperative that I reach a definite understanding of what those characteristics are. 

The may be succinctly summarized as follows:

Nineteen twenty-four was another year of high score games hard-hit balls, and harassed pitchers. Several clubs, notably Pittsburgh and Detroit, made an early-season effort to revive the obsolete art of base stealing, but they soon found the 1924 ball as fast as ever and abandoned attempted base thefts as a useless risk. The next man up was far too likely to hit a three-bagger. 

So the season, long before it had reached the halfway mark, settled down into another slugger's year. Both right-and left-handed pitching suffered. Pitching in both leagues continued the previous year's improvement as a matter of accuracy, due to the fact that balls in all parks were again left in the game longer, but hitting nevertheless maintained a sharply defined lead.

The records, still incomplete as this article is being written, seem to show that left-handed pitchers as a class fared better than right-handers this year, but paradoxically enough 1924 was also a year of sensational left-handed hitting.

This last fact is the clinching argument that 1924 was a year of batting supremacy and a true index to the requirement that any team built to win 1924 -style baseball must be a batting team. Defensive power must be there too, of course, but in choosing between two men with anything approximating equal defensive ability the player who can hit the ball hardest and oftenest must be given the call.

With that fact in mind, I start assembling my team of world beaters.

For the catching assignment, I single out Bassler of Detroit and Myatt of Cleveland.

Bassler is considered by most experts the smartest catcher of the year. He has the ideal temperament and talent for the highly specialized art of backstopping. He is aggressive in a thoroughly wholesome manner, a quick thinker, a masterful handler of pitchers, the posseser of a powerful arm, and a batter of the clean-up variety.

Bassler is exceptionally "smart around the plate," a sure guardian, and a power in stopping the double steal. He never cripples his pitcher by demanding repeated pitch-outs, and the fact that he coaxed Rip Collins, Yankee and Red Sox trade-off, Whitehill, a rookie, and Holloway to pitch Detroit into a contending position in the American League race this year is high tribute to his all-around value.

Myatt's chance came this year when Steve O'Neill went to the Red Sox, and he promptly shouldered his way into the limelight. He is faster than Bassler, but lacks Bassler's experience and skill in guarding the plate and stopping the double steal.

Myatt is a strong right-field hitter and especially valuable on his home diamond, where the right-field wall is close in, but he is a great at all times with an average that has hovered between .320 and .330 from the first.

Hartnett of the Cubs, Severeid of the Browns, and Ruel of Washington are all splendid catchers, but they haven't pounded the ball this year with the viciousness of Bassler and Myatt.

Vance of Brooklyn and Walter Johnson of Washington are unquestionably kings of the pitchers. Vance, the "Strike-out King," supplanted Adolfo Luque this year as leading "Won-and-Lost" pitcher and also shattered his own 1923 record of 197 strike-outs.

The tall Brooklynite used a fast-breaking hook such as carried Luque to glory in 1923, but mixed it with a faster ball than Luque's. Control he had in the pinches, but ordinarily he was just wild enough to make him unbeatable. Even the most daring batsman hesitates to crowd the plate on Vance.

Vance probably reached the peak of his 1924 season on August 23rd at Chicago when he struck out fifteen Cubs for the season's record to that date, six of them consecutively, lifting his year's total to 196, which is one less than his record mark for the entire season of 1923.

Vance is also that rare gem - a good fielding pitcher. He has a sound minor-league background and easily qualifies as one of the greatest pitchers of all time.

Walter Johnson's eighteenth season of major-league ball has found him greater than ever. Long a magnificent figure with a team never until this year in the running, Johnson has has one of his greatest seasons. His fast ball may have leaked some of its former steam, but it is still so much faster than the majority of fast balls doing business that it still has the batters lunging at the spot it just left.

Walter Johnson is also a batter of ability. He frequently goes in as a pinch hitter, and when he smacks a ball it travels. With him in the game pressure would be on the opposing pitcher all the way. There would be no respite anywhere along the line. Our offensive team would always be in danger of breaking through.

Hollis Thurston of the White Sox is a youngster who made a splendid impression in 1924. He is colorful, confident, and aggressive. He has an uncanny ability to sneak the ball by the batter. Some sixth sense seems to enable him to serve his pitch either just before of just after the batter is ready for it. He promises to become one of the very real stars of the future.

Vance, Johnson, and Thuston are right-handers. A team doing actual battle should also have a supply of left-handers in reserve. Joe Shaute of Cleveland, Earl Whitehill of the Tigers, and Jack Bentley of the Giants are three left-handers who have come to the fore this year. Artie Nehf of the Giants is a veteran of established worth, and Wingard of the Browns has looked unbeatable at times.

In selecting Fournier of Brooklyn and Sheely of the White Sox as my first basemen, I am for the first time setting aside other considerations to get men who slaughter the ball. Fournier, my first choice, isn't so perfect a target as George Kelley of the Giants, for example. He isn't the relay and cut-off man Kelley is.

He may not field his position so cleanly as Jim Bottomley of the Cardinals, Charley Grimm of the Pirates, Joe Judge of the Senators, or Lu Blue of the Tigers, but he is an all-round workman of parts, nevertheless, and he is by far the most murderous batsman of the group. As this is being written Fournier is leading the National League in home runs with twenty-five to his credit, and his batting average is .346. Sheely trails ten points below him, and Judge, the nearest of the others, is fourteen points below Sheely.

Fournier has a sufficiency of other points to supplement his slugging. He is fast, despite his years in the harness, and his throwing arm is still one of the best. He bats left-handed.

Sheely, a right-hand hitter, impresses me as one of the smartest stickmen in the game. He is invaluable on the batting end of the hit and run. He can hit behind the runner, pull his shot through short or push it through second with uncanny skill. He is a great target at first and can dig a ball out of the dirt better than Fournier. His handicap is lack of speed, but he is great despite it. Sheely at first, Eddie Collins at second, and Harry Hooper in right field bunch three of the smartest men in baseball in one corner of the White Sox defense.

The first basemen can't be passed without a reference to George Sisler. He is still great, but he is sadly not the Sisler of two years ago. The dimming of this brilliant star is one of the real tragedies of baseball history. It is to be fervently hoped that this eclipse is only temporary.

Hornsby of the Cardinals gets the assignment over Eddie Collins of the White Sox at second only because of the tremendous hitting. The only established .400 hitter in baseball, and five-time leader of the National League, Hornsby's is one of the great names in baseball's Hall of Fame.

Hornsby doesn't cover so much ground as Collins nor offer the brilliant defensive play of Frisch, but he is nevertheless dependable, with a great arm a natural flair for the game, and a pair of the fastest legs of the decade. Archdeacon of the White Sox is called the fastest man in baseball, and perhaps he could beat out Hornsby down the first base line. But I should like to see them race against each other from first to third. I think I'd back the National Leaguer to get there first.

Eddie Collins, playing his nineteenth consecutive season in the game, is second choice for the keystone assignment. He has been hitting close to .340 all year and leading his league in stolen bases despite his 38 years of age. Collins is a finished defensive second baseman in every sense of the term. He plays his position the same as Speaker plays the outfield, shifting constantly on each count and pitch. He has the knack of getting the jump on the batter and he does even the most difficult things so well that they appear ridiculously easy.

Despite the fact that three of the greatest stars of the contemporary game, Hornsby, Collins, and Frisch, are second basemen, the keystone position is the weakest in the major leagues at present. After these three the field falls rapidly away with the single exception of Maranville of the Pirates, who shifted to second this season after years of starring at short stop and continued his splendid playing.

Stanley Harris, the young manager of the Senators, and Aaron Ward of the Yankees were the other outstanding second-sackers of the year.

-------------------------------Frisch is Best at Third----------------
-----------------
Frank Frisch of the Giants and Joe Dugan of the Yankees are my nominations at third. Frisch's normal position is at second base, of course, but he was a star third baseman before he became a star second baseman, and any team defending the honor of American baseball would be foolishly discounting its strength if it failed to avail itself of his spectacular defensive play and his sharp work with the willow.

Frisch has a marvelous pair of hands. He is a courageous, desperate, try-for-everything type of player. He is lightning fast of brain and body. He has a powerful, arm and can throw from any angle. He hits from either side of the plate and clubs at a .330 clip. In short, he is a Fielding third baseman who gets the call over other fielding third basemen because of superior hitting ability.

Joe Dugan is the best of the bona fide third basemen. Although barely in the .300 class, he is a hitter of the clean-up category with an especial perchant for the two-baggers and three-baggers. He too has great hands. They have a particular affinity for balls that take wicked hops, and many apparent base hits are tamed by his spectacular knockdowns.

Traynor of the Pirates and Kamm of the White Sox are other star third sackers. Traynor batted for .337 in 1923 but he wallowed in a slump until midseason of 1924. Both Frisch and Dugan are more versatile batsmen that Traynor and will hit the ball harder to the different fields.

All these men are exceptional on bunts laid down their alley, and Dugan and Kamm are wonderful handling that more exacting chance - a topped ball. Traynor has the best throwing arm of the lot perhaps, but Frisch and Dugan will shade him getting the ball away. Walter Lutzke of Cleveland is a marvelous fielding third baseman, but his hitting ability isn't so marked.

For shortstop, my first choice is Bancroft of the Braves. I have never seen more brilliant shortstop play than Bancroft's while he was in the game this year. The ease with which he plays a ball would appeal to these efficiency experts who go into the different trades to eliminate lost motion. He can go farther to either side to get a ball and cut off his man than any shortstop since Hans Wagner.

Banny covers a huge amount of territory, and he is near perfection in the all-important item of midfield defense. He is an adept on relays and cutoffs with throws from the outfield; he is the best man in either league handling the long or short throw against the double steal, and he puts the ball on a runner with the best of them. He is sure fire on either end of the double play and like Frisch, is reversible at bat. He was hitting like a demon when illness removed him from the battlefield.

Young Glenn Wright, the brand-new Pittsburgher, is my second choice for the short field, although he is quite a drop from Bancroft. He is a youngster of great promise. He takes a hard cut at the ball and is a busybody at all times. He is exceptionally fast for a big man and he fields the position cleanly. The fact that he jumped from the minors into the pivotal position of a contending major-league club and made good from the start gives a true line on his ability.

Walter Gerber of the St. Louis Americans is even a faster fielder than Bancroft. He can make a play faster when he has to than any shortstop I have ever seen, but he is not so dependable at bat as Bancroft and Wright.

Peckinpaugh of the Senators, Joe Sewell of Cleveland, and Everett Scott, the wonderful veteran of the Yankees, are the other great shortstops of the year with Chick Galloway of the Athletics and Travis Jackson of the Giants close behind.

From the plenitude of outfield material the 1924 season produced, I am selecting Babe Ruth of the Yankees, Edd Roush of Cincinnati, and Bib Falk of the White Sox for my first string, with young Hazen Cuyler of the Pirates, Ty Cobb of Detroit, and Zack Wheat of Brooklyn in reserve.

These are six of the most murderous sluggers in baseball. If any one of them had a real batting weakness in the season just closed, the pitchers in their respective leagues failed to discover it. But they were also considerably more than mere sluggers. They exhibited a sterling brand of defensive play that was usually overlooked because all eyes were riveted upon their tremendous hitting.

Babe Ruth in right field is an unquestionable nomination. His record as the leading slugger of all time is too well known to require amplification here. He is unquestionably the most valuable player in the game. Most enthusiasts think of Ruth only as a mighty batsman. As a mater of fact, he is a very finished outfielder with a marvelous throwing arm; and the fact that he was one of the greatest left-hand pitchers in the game before he became an outfielder is now generally forgotten.

Ruth plays a hard-hit ball as well as any outfielder in the business. He goes after a ground ball like an infielder, and for all his size he is a smart and daring base runner.

Vicing for Ruth I should place Hazen Cuyler, who broke in as a regular this year with Pittsburgh and became the sensation of his league. Cuyler is young, strong, and fast. He can throw and run with the best of them and his hitting for the season has been better than .380.

---------------------The Years Keep Cobb Off----------------------------

In Center Field, I select Edd Roush over Cobb and Speaker because he is still great in every department, while time has begun to take its toll of the remarkable Tris and Ty; I place him ahead of Archdeacon of the White Sox because Archdeacon eventually faltered after a sensational start, while Roush started poorly, then blazed his way to heights never attained before in his career.

Roush is a finished outfielder in every sense of the word. He is a great ground covered, a shifting ball hawk, and a clean-up slugger of the .350 class.

Ty Cobb, like Babe Ruth, is far too well known to require comment here. Ty is slowing a little but he is still one of the greatest of them all.

Bib Falk in left is a fitting teammate for Ruth and Roush. he is wonderful on a fly ball, and with Ruth is the best throwing outfielder in the game. He hits better than .350 and, like Roush, plays all over his field. Like Ruth and Roush, Falk can also go back after a ball. This is the ultimate test of outfield greatness. When a man can play in close enough to snare short hits and still go back fast enough to pull down the long ones, he is of double value to his club.

Zack Wheat get the alternate assignment in left chiefly because of his hitting. Wheat's arm isn't so good as it once was and he doesn't handle a ground ball so well as the first stringers, but his .350 batting average would fit in handsomely with any plan of attack. 

--------------------------The Question of Batting Order----------------------

Having selected this first team of heavy-hitting stars, I should next build me a batting order that would enable me to utilize their several talents to the fullest. This is the order in which I should send them to the plate:

1. Bancroft
2. Roush
3. Ruth
4. Hornsby
5. Falk
6. Fournier
7. Frisch
8. Bassler
9. Vance

Bancroft is an ideal lead-off man. He hits either right-handed or left-handed. Bancroft is a good waiter and is presented with many a base on balls. He hits hard enough to keep the infielders back, but he is also fast enough to make a bunt extremely dangerous.

Roush as second man is not only a long slugger who could be depended to bring Bancroft in, but he is also fast enough to make an infielder hustle to double him at first. Roush can lay down a bunt expertly when that strategy is resorted to or he can take a free swing if that seems advisable.

Although Ruth and Hornsby both bat third for their respective teams, I should send the Babe up ahead of Hornsby here because he is a long hitter, while Hornsby's specialty is base hitting. Ruth would either clean the bases or clout a long sacrifice fly. In case of a shorter hit or a base on balls, he is fast enough to stay ahead of Hornsby, who, batting as clean-up man, could do whatever Ruth failed to in the matter of cleaning house.

The heavy artillery would already be under way, with Falk, Fournier, Frisch, and Bassler waiting in line to keep up the drum fire. The batting average of this team, based on 1924 figures and exclusive of Vance, is something over .350.

Vance is not a hitting pitcher, but Walter Johnson is, and with the latter in there, terrific pressure would be on the opposing battery all the way. The opposing hurler would have to pitch his hardest at every stage, for all these men are smart batsmen. They don't go after the bad ones. The all have to be pitched to.

The opposing infield would be under a severe strain also, for any one of these batters is smart enough to cross up the defense with an unexpected bunt at any stage.

The fact that Roush, Ruth, Falk, Fournier, and Bassler are all natural left-hand hitters may draw the criticism that this is a left-handed batting team. That criticism won't hold because players with the batting averages of these stars have proved that they can hit any kind of pitching.

This team of mine may never be assembled as a unit on a playing field, but if it could, and would play up to its capabilities, I fail to see how it could be defeated. It boasts the best of everything that makes baseball a game - tremendous hitting power, sensational fielding ability, and pitching of unbeatable class. With a manager like John McGraw to guide its destiny, there is no limit to the heights it might attain. ( He also chose Ty Cobb of Detroit, to manage his second team) (End of article)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
2/20/2015 7:05 AM
And here is another one: the favorite players of all-time great players: once again posted by Bill Burgess on Baseball-Fever.com

Bill Burgess
02-02-2006, 06:44 PM
Childhood Idols:
(The Heroes' Heroes, The Literary Digest, January 2, 1932, by Frank Graham.)

Ty Cobb Was Rogers Hornsby's:

1931 - "Ty Cobb was Hornsby's hero, and this is what he had to say about him: "Of course, I never saw Cobb when I was a kid, because the Tigers didn't ever come to Fort Worth, and I didn't ever get very far from it. But as far back as I can remember, I wanted to be a great hitter, and I guess there never was a greater hitter than Cobb. So he was my hero and, on account of him,the Tigers were my favorite team, and I followed him and the Tigers through the newspapers every day. I first saw him in the spring of 1916, when I was with the Cardinals in training at San Antonio and we went to Waxahachie, where the Tigers trained, to play an exhibition game. I didn't say anything to him and he didn't say anything to me, but I got a thrill out of watching him because in those days he was plenty good. He handled a bat like a billiard-cue, and he was on fire every time he got on the bases. Later I got to know him real well, and to like him as much as I thought I would when I was a kid." (Baseball Magazine, May, 1931, pp. 347, "They Had Their Heroes, Too", by Frank Graham) (This article was excerpted in Literary Digest, Jan. 2, 1932)

1961 - "Cobb was the greatest ball player of all time and will never be equaled. (St. Louis Post-Dispatch, July 18, 1961)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ty Cobb Was Mickey Cochrane's:

1931 - "Ty Cobb," said Cochrane, "Growing up around Boston, I saw all the big leaguers and right from the start Ty was my hero. I went to as many ball games as I could and you may be sure I never missed one when the Tigers came to town if I possibly could help it. I became acquainted with him when I broke in with the Athletics and later, when he came over to our club, that acquaintance developed into a real friendship. If he were playing ball today he'd still be my hero, which is the tip-off on how he registered with me." (Baseball Magazine, May, 1931, pp. 347, "They Had Their Heroes, Too", by Frank Graham) (This article was excerpted in Literary Digest, Jan. 2, 1932)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Babe Ruth Was Pepper Martin's:

"Babe Ruth was my hero," said Pepper Martin. And he told Mr. Graham further, I first took a shine to him when he was pitching for the Red Sox and I was a kid in town in Oklahoma. I thought he was the greatest pitcher in the world. And I guess he was. Right then, anyway. The first big kick I ever got out of a World Series I got when he was pitching against the Cubs in 1918. And then he turned around and became the greatest home-run hitter, and that gave me another kick. He showed me he was not only the greatest pitcher of his time, but the greatest ball-player of all time."

Further, the Pepper-pot confided to the writer:

"Do I know him? Yeah. I met him down in Florida last spring when he Yankees came to Bradenton to play an exhibition game against us. I think he's a swell fellow. I don't know whether he'd know me or not. You know how he is, meeting so many people all the time. But a guess maybe he'd know me--now."

It seemed likely. At the moment Pepper Martin loomed so large on the American scene as to blot out the depression, the Japanese imbroglio, and about everything else, including the Cardinals and the Athletics.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Christy Mathewson Was Babe Ruth's:

Well, then, who was Babe Ruth's hero? 

"Christy!" boomed the Babe. "Sure, Christy Mathewson."

As we read on, we find the Home-Run King paying this tribute:

"Maybe there was a greater pitcher than Matty, but I doubt it.

"And if anybody had suggested it to me when I was a kid in Baltimore and he was pinning the boys' ears back in the National League, I probably would have taken a sock at him, because I was a rough kid in those days. Maybe I didn't always know my lessons, but I always knew how many games Matty had won and lost. I read everything about him that I could get my hands on.

"By the time I got up to the big leagues Matty was just about getting through as a pitcher, but I got to know him when he was managing the Reds, and saw quite a little of him after that, when he was coaching for the Giants and later, when he was president of the Braves. A great pitcher--and a great fellow who made an impression on baseball that won't wear off as long as the game lasts." 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cy Young Was Tris Speaker's:

"Cy Young," said Speaker. "We didn't see any big-league ball-players down around Hubbard, Texas, where I was born and reared, but that didn't stop us from bing interested in the big-league teams and players. My favorite team was the Red Sox and my favorite player was Young, who was a sweet pitcher, believe me.

"And here's the strangest--and best--part of the story. When I was sold by Little Rock to the Red Sox in 1908, Young still was pitching for them, and when I reported he was the first to greet me and show a friendly interest in me. In those days a busher breaking in generally had no friends. He was figuratively--and sometimes literally--pushed around and made to feel by the other players that he wasn't wanted, and I got plenty of pushing around from the Red Sox.

"But Young and Lou Criger, his battery mate, took me in hand. I went to live at the same apartment-hotel where they lived, and the aid and encouragement they game me, both on and off the field, helped me tremendously to put myself over."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From a different source.

Walter Johnson Was Lefty Grove's:

"Walter Johnson. I used to go from home to watch that bugger pitch. We'd take a train from Lonaconing down to Washington--three-or-four-hour trip in those days--on Sundays to see him pitch. We idolized that guy. Just sat there and watched him pitch. Down around the knees--whoosh! One after the other. He had something all right. I pitched against a lot of guys and saw a lot of guys throw, and I haven't seen one yet come close to as fast as he was. (Baseball When the Grass Was Real, by Donald Honig, 1975, pp. 80-81)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ty Cobb Was Happy Chandler's:

Former Baseball Commissioner and member of the Hall of Fame, Happy Chandler, said Ty Cobb was his boyhood idol. 

"Ty Cobb has to be recognized as the greatest ball player American baseball has had. He hit .367 for 24 years. If you needed a hit, he'd get you one, and he'd get you a good one. He had 4,191 hits and that has never been surpassed. He stole almost 900 base, stole home 54 times, was a great center fielder, and played for 24 years. Fellows nowadays are lucky if thy can play ten or twelve years.

"Yes, Tyrus Raymond Cobb from Georgia. Ty Cobb has to be No. 1 based upon the records. He was my idol. Opinions die, but his records live.

"And he was exciting on the field. He fought his own fellows first, then the umpires, then the fans. He fought everyone who would fight. He was a tremendous player and he fought fair. He was the fist man elected to the Hall of Fame." (Hall of Famers Recall Their Boyhood Idols, by Joan Culkin, Baseball Digest, December, 1983, pp. 28-31)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ty Cobb was Joe Sewell's:

"Ty Cobb. He was a great ballplayer," said Sewell. "He was just my idol. He was the greatest baseball player I've seen in the major leagues from the 1920s to the present day. Yes, Ty Cobb is the greatest ballplayer I've seen yet.

"I've played with Babe Ruth and roomed with Lou Gehrig, seen Tris Speaker, George Sisler, and a lot of those great players . . . DiMaggio, Willie Mays, but Ty Cobb could do more things, and do more things to beat ya. Babe Ruth is the greatest home run hitter I've ever seen. These other players couldn't carry Babe Ruth's glove as far as hittin' was concerned. Babe Ruth could hit a ball farther than any fellow born or ever will be born or that ever lived--consistently. some of these other fellows get a hold of a ball, hit it out of the ballpark, but then go for two months before they hit another one. Ruth would hit one out one day, go back and hit out another one, and then go back an hit out another one."

"Overall, Ty Cobb could do so many things to beat ya. He was fast, a great outfielder, great hitter, and he was highly intelligent. Don't forget that." (Hall of Famers Recall Their Boyhood Idols, by Joan Culkin, Baseball Digest, December, 1983, pp. 28-31)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Hornsby was Al Lopez's:

As a youth, Hall of Famer Al Lopez moods were affected by his idol.

"Rogers Hornsby was my idol," admitted Lopez who caught more games (1,918) than any other catcher n history. "I just took a fancy to him. To me he was the best hitter in baseball.

"The first thing I'd do in the morning was pick up the paper and see what Rogers Hornsby did. I didn't look to see if the team had won or lost. If he got a couple of hits, I'd feel good. If he went 0 for 4, I wouldn't feel so good." (Hall of Famers Recall Their Boyhood Idols, by Joan Culkin, Baseball Digest, December, 1983, pp. 28-31)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ty Cobb Was Eddie Collins's:

1915 - "His gifts are so unusual, so far above the next best, that he stands in a class by himself. I have never seen and never expect to see from any other person such wonderful playing as Ty Cobb has performed at his very best when facing the Athletics and that may be better than his usual average. I frankly admit that I never expect, have never expected to equal Cobb as a ball player. The best that any other player can hope for, in my opinion, is second place." (Baseball Magazine, March, 1915, pp. 63-63, "Collins the Great", by Ferdinand C. Lane, pp. 47-63)

1928 - "I find it a trifle difficult to express concisely my esteem for Ty Cobb. Since my entry into Baseball, he has been my Model and I have striven to imitate his style of play. To me, he seems Perfection, personified. It doesn't seem sufficient to to just say, "the greatest ballplayer of all time." At one time bitterest rivals, it is most gratifying to me to become a team mate of Ty's, in the closing years of our careers. I feel confident that this Most Excellent Biography of the game's Premier Player will fill a long-felt want among Mr. Cobb's great host of admirers." Edward T. Collins, Philadelphia American League Ball Club, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, (Introduction to Ty Cobb: The Idol of Fandom, by Sverre O. Braathen, of the Wisconsin Bar, 1928) 

1962 - Barbara Tyler was private secretary to Collins for many years. According to Miss Tyler, Collins never talked in glowing terms about any other player the way he did about Ty. "If you ever wanted Mr. Collins to extol the virtues of a great ball player, " Miss Tyler stated, "all you had to mention was Ty's name. Then Mr. Collins would go on for hours telling about the greatest player who ever lived." (Sporting News, January 3, 1962, pp. 17, column 5)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ty Cobb Was George Sisler's:

1931 - "For third place you simply must make room for Ty Cobb. Ty was the most brilliant ballplayer baseball has produced, the most daring, the most spectacular. Ty was poison on the base-paths. He completely disrupted infield defense. At bat he always mixed ability with brains. He had the most versatile batting attack on record. I have publicly said many times that Ty was my own batting model, and he was. I tried to learn place hitting by watching him. No one that I ever heard of taught Ty how to bat. But dozens of players owe a good deal of their own batting success to Ty's teaching. (Baseball Magazine, April , 1931, pp. 484, "The Greatest Player I Ever Saw, Comprising an Interview With George Sisler, pp. 483-484)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ty Cobb Was Jimmie *****'s:

1967 - "Picking the outfield is easy. In left, Ty Cobb, who knew every possible trick in the book that'd get him on and then show some new ones to us who got in his way. No one has yet surpassed Ty as a hitter and baserunner and no one ever will." ( You Can't Steal First Base" by Jimmy *****, 1967, pp. 205, 209)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Burgess
 
2/20/2015 8:03 AM
good stuff !....id like to see the Italy all time team and the Italy all time team of favorite players regardless of greatness....no sopranos..even though tony would be the perfect clean up hitter.
2/20/2015 9:47 AM
Epic stuff...

Given that these guys didn't have access to highlights or film or anything, you know that these are their true opinions from watching the players play. Maybe some from reading, but this is insight from the players themselves that they had to formulate from their personal experiences. That is really cool.
2/20/2015 10:20 AM
My all time team: 

C: Yogi Berry and Josh Gibson
1B: Lou Gehrig and Jimmy Foxx
2B: Eddie Collins and Nap LaJoie (Joe Morgan is close)
3B: Eddie Mathews and Mike Schmidt
SS: Honus Wagner and defense: Ozzie Smith, offense: Derek Jeter
LF: Ted Williams and Stan Musial
CF: Willie Mays and Mickey Mantle
RF: Babe Ruth and Henry Aaron

SP: Walter Johnson, Sandy Koufax, Christy Mathewson, Rube Waddell, Satchel Paige
RP: Mariano Rivera, Hoyt Wilhelm, Roy Face, Lindy McDaniel, Dennis Eckersley

Managers: John McGraw, Casey Stengel, (imagine a conversation between those two !)



My all-time team of favorite players: (only players in my lifetime)

C: Thurman Munson and Mike Piazza
1B: Don Mattingly and Frank Thomas
2B: Willie Randolph and Ken Boswell
3B: Graig Nettles and Brooks Robinson
SS: Derek Jeter and Ozzie Smith
LF: Carl Yastrzemski and Roy White
CF: Bernie Williams and Ken Griffey Jr. 
RF: Roberto Clemente and Reggie Jackson

SP: Tom Seaver, Catfish Hunter, David Cone, Dave Stewart, David Wells
RP: Mariano Rivera, Dennis Eckersley, Sparky Lyle, Tug McGraw, John Wetteland

Managers: Earl Weaver and Lou Piniella


All-time unfair competition team (based on having excluded others to reduce competition or having used substances to unlevel the playing field, or having acted in some way to gain advantage or give away advantage):

C: Todd Hundley
1B: Mark McGwire ,Cap Anson, Rafael Palmeiro, Jason Giambi, Chick Gandil,  and Hal Chase
2B: Chuck Knoblauch and Jerry Hairston, Jr. 
3B: Buck Weaver (possibly innocent) and Pete Rose
SS: Alex Rodriguez and Miguel Tejada
LF: Barry Bonds and Shoeless Joe Jackson
CF: Ty Cobb, Lenny Dykstra,  and David Justice
RF: Sammy Sosa, Jose Canseco, and Manny Ramirez

SP: Eddie Cicotte, Roger Clemens, Bartolo Colon, Andy Pettitte 

Player-Manager: Cap Anson

Commissioner of Baseball: Kenesaw Mountain Landis  




2/20/2015 11:35 AM
Great read, italyprof.  Thanks for posting.  I'm in a prog right now that's in the middle of the era being discussed here, so it's fun to read about these guys.  And I learned that Kiki Cuyler's real first name was Hazen!
2/20/2015 11:45 AM
loved reading this, and some of the tidbits helped me better understand some of the players who I only knew by name. Enjoyed some of the tidbits such as the Tigers abandoning any running game early in the season and Big Six already proclaiming Dazzy Vance as one of the best pitchers of all time. Will be checking out more of the website you posted.

Thanks for sharing this.
2/20/2015 12:35 PM
meant to post above that Hollis Thurston (who we better know as Sloppy Thurston in the SIM search) is referenced as having "an uncanny ability to sneak the ball by the batter". In looking him up, Big Six must have a different idea of slipping the by ball a hitter, as he had a 1.14 k/9 number that year!
2/20/2015 12:39 PM
thanks, steve...when i said good stuff i meant amazing stuff...and the intellect and clearmindedness of christy mathewson was very interesting.
    the alltime teams was great and the unfair competetion team was a great bonus. but i hope that pete rose was an invalid choice.
     only disagreement for the alltime team is hornsby  insted of collinsand maddux. instead of waddell...

2/20/2015 12:59 PM
My all time team:

C: Johnny Bench and Yogi Berra
1B: Lou Gehrig and Jimmy Foxx
2B: Rogers Hornsby and Nap Lajoie
3B: Mike Schmidt & Brooks Robinson
SS: Honus Wagner & Cal Ripken Jr.
LF: Ted Williams and Stan Musial (with apologies of sorts to Barry Bonds)
CF: Willie Mays and Ty Cobb
RF: Babe Ruth and Henry Aaron
2/20/2015 1:44 PM
Maddux is one of the all time greats no doubt. Probably running the historical replay has given me an idea just how good Waddell was, so that is in my mind. 

I still have a sense that Koufax for example was better than Pedro (great as Pedro really was) because the number of IP, the ability to pitch the whole game (though ending a career shorter as a result perhaps) balances out the hitters' era and park that Pedro pitched in. 

Tom Seaver belongs on that team somewhere and Bob Gibson, but I went with 5 starters. Hard, hard to pick 5. 

As for Hornsby, he is one of those players I don't know where to place. His numbers are unbelievable, but Collins seems more well-rounded - Hornsby is kind of the Ted Williams of second base - he just hits. But in a left-fielder that is more forgivable than in infielder. 

Still, I put Jeter on the list, though this was based on not putting anyone who is known to have used steroids on the team or A-Rod would have been there instead. 

But a tough call and it is a tough judgement call not to put Johnny Bench at C. 

Greatest teams might be more interesting if we divided it not too finely - in decades for example, but in larger time periods but divided: 

So maybe 1871-1919, 1919 to 1947, 1947 to 1980, 1980 to today. 

These are not entirely logical but might make the choices harder or more interesting. Let's also assume that we are trying mentally to adjust for conditions, including exclusion of players or steroids for the moment, but not keeping people off per se as I did in the list above. Then it gets more interesting:

1871-1919

C - Mike King Kelly or Buck Ewing
1B - Cap Anson
2B - Nap Lajoie
3B - Home Run Baker
SS - Honus Wagner
OF - Ty Cobb, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Tris Speaker
P - Walter Johnson, Cy Young, Christy Mathewson, Rube Waddell, (honorable mentions: Candy Cummings, Al Spalding)

1919-1947

C- Mickey Cochrane and Josh Gibson
1B - Lou Gehrig, Jimmy Foxx
2B - Eddie Collins and Rogers Hornsby (under-rated: Max Bishop)
3B - Stan Hack or Pie Traynor
SS - Luke Appling
OF - Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, Joe Dimaggio

P - Lefty Grove, Satchel Paige, Dizzy Dean, Bob Feller, Hal Newhouser

1947-1980

C: Yogi Berra and Johnny Bench (Roy Campanella is right up there)
1B - Willie McCovey and Boog Powell
2B - Joe Morgan and Jackie Robinson
3B- Mike Schmidt and Eddie Mathews (under-rated: Graig Nettles)
SS- Pee Wee Reese and Ernie Banks
OF - Willie Mays, Henry Aaron, Mickey Mantle (second team: Stan Musial, Duke Snider, Reggie Jackson)

P - Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson, Tom Seaver, Warren Spahn, Steve Carlton

1980 to today: 

C: Ivan Rodriguez and Mike Piazza 
1B: Don Mattingly and Keith Hernandez (and Frank Thomas)
2B: Roberto Alomar and Willie Randolph
3B: Mike Schmidt (again, 1980 not a good dividing line in his case), Wade Boggs, Scott Rolen
SS: Alex Rodriguez, Barry Larkin, and Derek Jeter (defense: Ozzie Smith and Omar Vizquel)
OF: Ken Griffey Jr., Barry Bonds, Tony Gwynn

P: Pedro Martinez, Greg Maddux, Randy Johnson, Curt Schilling, Roger Clemens, Mariano Rivera, Dennis Eckersley
Of course this pitchers list can't be complete - there are somewhere between 6 and 10 currently active pitchers who might belong on it. 




2/20/2015 2:35 PM
 i agree that the ability to go 8-9 innings cant be underestimated..the hornsby/williams analogy is a good one.
      on 47-80 i like ashburn instead of jackson...amazing fielder and sportscaster.

2/20/2015 3:13 PM
great stuff professor i found it interesting that he would use the term "hall of fame" in 1924 when he was referring to Hornsby.  for me it has always been between cobb and ruth when it comes to greatest  but the players of their day and immediately after sure seem to pick cobb alot more
2/21/2015 6:19 AM
Yeah I was struck by the use of that phrase by Mathewson too. Apparently it was a saying long before the actual creation of one at Cooperstown.
2/21/2015 6:40 AM
I love this stuff!! My son and I watch the Ken Burns' series from beginning to end probably once a year, we both share a love for the earlier "innings" about Cobb. It's mind blowing to listen to the things the players who got to play with Cobb say about his abilities. They make it sound like he was a one man wrecking crew that could dominate every facet of the game. Man what I wouldn't give to go back in time and watch him play!! My grandfather once told me that until Willie Mays came along he believed Ty Cobb was the only man God had specifically put on this earth with the purpose to play baseball!! The greatest game ever played!!
2/21/2015 10:12 AM
12 Next ▸
Christy Mathewson picks a 1924 All Star team -more Topic

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2026 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.