Glanville writes:

Watching so many of sports’ biggest superstars tweet their disappointment in the vote that kept Bonds out didn’t help. Eventually, I realized what many of them haven’t had to: The lines you draw are different when you are directly impacted by such rampant cheating. Not peripherally, not theoretically, but directly — in your contract negotiations, on the lineup card, on the depth chart, in the win column.

It is one thing to watch artificial domination on TV, marveling at the numbers it produced as if it is a magic show. It is another when you lose your job from it.

Eventually, I tried to put aside my anger at the tweets and the commentary. I ended up with a question: How can we celebrate anyone who clearly leveraged unfair advantages in order to win?

We want to enshrine these men? For what? For having a better pharmacist?

I had changed my mind and felt Bones, Clements, etc should be in. But Granville, always a class guy when here, has pulled me back.

I doubt Cobb did anything

Posted by chargingryno on 2/1/2022 3:51:00 PM (view original):
Then you gotta take half the guys (if not more) out of the hall.

Sutton, Perry, Cobb, Aaron, mantle…not one of them didn’t do something to leverage an unfair advantage at some point in their careers.

The HoF has been a joke imo for awhile but it just gets worse each year they fail to put the greatest hitter of an era, if not the game, in.

So wrong. Prove what you say and explain how anything ever done comes anywhee close to what Bonds and Clemens and Sosa and McQuire did.

He was not the best hitter once he chested at that level with THOSE drugs.

What gets me about the "steroid era" is that steroids were rampant in professional sports before that era even began. Tom House has admitted to using steroids in the 60's. MLB didn't test, they banned in the early 90s but didn't start testing until 2003. They profited off of these players and then allowed them to become pariahs.

Interesting tidbid about Tom House, he came up with the Braves in 71. All of a sudden at 37yo Hammerin Hanks HR% jumped to over 8%. Previously in his career it had never been over 6.9%, He did it again in 73 at 39yo, In 73, the year Davey Johnson joined the Braves, he managed to hit 43 out of the park. His 2nd highest career total, 18.

Look at how Nolan Ryans number improved when he got to the Rangers. His pitching coach in Texas, Tom House.

Another outlier, Brady Anderson. 50 homeruns in 1996. Never hit more than 24 before or after. His manager in Baltimore, Davey Johnson. Also on that team was Rafael Palmeiro.

Not suggesting a thing. Take these facts however you want.

Posted by krizzeg on 2/1/2022 6:17:00 PM (view original):
What gets me about the "steroid era" is that steroids were rampant in professional sports before that era even began. Tom House has admitted to using steroids in the 60's. MLB didn't test, they banned in the early 90s but didn't start testing until 2003. They profited off of these players and then allowed them to become pariahs.

Interesting tidbid about Tom House, he came up with the Braves in 71. All of a sudden at 37yo Hammerin Hanks HR% jumped to over 8%. Previously in his career it had never been over 6.9%, He did it again in 73 at 39yo, In 73, the year Davey Johnson joined the Braves, he managed to hit 43 out of the park. His 2nd highest career total, 18.

Look at how Nolan Ryans number improved when he got to the Rangers. His pitching coach in Texas, Tom House.

Another outlier, Brady Anderson. 50 homeruns in 1996. Never hit more than 24 before or after. His manager in Baltimore, Davey Johnson. Also on that team was Rafael Palmeiro.

Not suggesting a thing. Take these facts however you want.

They could be good facts esp Brady Anderson
but I doubt that anything around in the 60s could compare to the designer Ivan Drago drugs if the 1990s and on.
a source of a different color.

spitballs were legal in the usa. were roids, without a prescription?

In the 70s/80s there were wide spread rumors of players using amphimines (sp?)

Posted by coldfoot on 2/1/2022 7:03:00 PM (view original):
spitballs were legal in the usa. were roids, without a prescription?

They were illegal in baseball. And yes, there were many over the counter steroids legal in US.

Former Royals outfielder Billy Butler once told me that a vast majority of MLB’ers were taking some sort of steroid, and that’s true for any time since they were created. And once they figure out how to test for it, they do something else, and then something else, even to the point of many players (this was back in 2015) drinking deer urine because they believed it gave them as competitive advantage

Posted by chargingryno on 2/1/2022 6:45:00 PM (view original):
An unfair advantage is an unfair advantage no matter how well/advanced the science is imo

Thats like saying simple assault is the same thing as aggravated asssault:
You cant call 2 things equal when they are not equal.

Posted by chargingryno on 2/1/2022 6:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jetson21 on 2/1/2022 4:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by chargingryno on 2/1/2022 3:51:00 PM (view original):
Then you gotta take half the guys (if not more) out of the hall.

Sutton, Perry, Cobb, Aaron, mantle…not one of them didn’t do something to leverage an unfair advantage at some point in their careers.

The HoF has been a joke imo for awhile but it just gets worse each year they fail to put the greatest hitter of an era, if not the game, in.

So wrong. Prove what you say and explain how anything ever done comes anywhee close to what Bonds and Clemens and Sosa and McQuire did.

He was not the best hitter once he chested at that level with THOSE drugs.

Perry and Sutton were known to doctor the baseballs, especially later in their careers. Ty Cobb sharpened the spikes on his cleats so he’d impale infields shins. John McGraw would grab the belt buckles of runners so they couldn’t advance bases.

Baseball has always been a game of cheaters, a game about doing whatever you can to get an edge. If you’re gonna punish the guys in the 90’s/00’s then you gotta punish them all.

Something else interesting I came across recently about Pud Galvin...

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/573866-pud-galvin-thegodfather-of-juicing

Posted by chargingryno on 2/1/2022 6:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jetson21 on 2/1/2022 4:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by chargingryno on 2/1/2022 3:51:00 PM (view original):
Then you gotta take half the guys (if not more) out of the hall.

Sutton, Perry, Cobb, Aaron, mantle…not one of them didn’t do something to leverage an unfair advantage at some point in their careers.

The HoF has been a joke imo for awhile but it just gets worse each year they fail to put the greatest hitter of an era, if not the game, in.

So wrong. Prove what you say and explain how anything ever done comes anywhee close to what Bonds and Clemens and Sosa and McQuire did.

He was not the best hitter once he chested at that level with THOSE drugs.

Perry and Sutton were known to doctor the baseballs, especially later in their careers. Ty Cobb sharpened the spikes on his cleats so he’d impale infields shins. John McGraw would grab the belt buckles of runners so they couldn’t advance bases.

Baseball has always been a game of cheaters, a game about doing whatever you can to get an edge. If you’re gonna punish the guys in the 90’s/00’s then you gotta punish them all.

Again there are guys who bend the rules or cheat a little. Steroids are Joe Jackson level and the Houston Astros cheating and the Pete Rose bombshell.