From a Philly Sportswriter

The CliffsNotes version is that the owners stink, they don’t even like baseball, and opening day is probably not going to happen. We’re very close to that officially being pushed back. The players have put a couple of deals on the table that, if accepted right then and there, would constitute a “win” for the owners. But it seems like they’re more interested in breaking the union than actually getting back to playing the game.

Reminder – owners chose the lockout, then decided not to negotiate for 42 days. They’re the ones giving the hardline stance that is going to cancel regular season games and jeopardize the 162 game season.

The owners make half their money from the playoffs anyways. Also attendance is at its lowest in April. The players get paid everyday, this is a calculated move by the owners to get the people to hate unions, and they have the littlest to lose financially.

wild the owners have overplayed their hand so much that even the generally water-carrying national baseball media is openly blaming them for this

Bryce’s solution

Bryce Harper posted this picture on Instagram of himself in a Yomiuri Giants uniform. "You up?" Harper asks in the Instagram story. "Got some time to kill."

The Yomiuri Giants are the oldest and most successful team in Japan's NPB, essentially that league's Yankees.

As Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic pointed out, the players' union included this message in a guide to agents prior to the lockout:

Q: "Can locked out players play in foreign leagues like Japan (NPB), Korea (KBO), etc?"

A: "Yes. The PA would challenge any attempts by MLB to interfere with players who choose to participate in a foreign league during a lockout. During the 2004-05 work stoppage, a large number of NHL players chose to play internationally."

Our country, especially our media, is very pro labor. I'm not in the least surprised to see them supporting the players here.

Interestingly, I feel many fans support the players, not because they think they're in the right, but because that is who we are fans of. Nobody follows a team because we like the ownership

That said, I'm a little older, and I recall what is used to cost for a ticket to a ballgame back when the evil owners had more power. As the players have gained leverage over the last 40-45 years, I can hardly afford to attend games anymore. It doesn't take a computer program to see the direct relation between rising annual player salaries and rising ticket/parking costs. Not to mention these guys making $25-35 mil a year, jacking up the costs of tickets, but not playing every day, so my ticket costs are through the roof, and there a solid chance I won't even get to seen Captain Universe play because the $30 million man needs a rest day.

My biggest problem with the owners is they didn’t care! The instituted the lock out, they didn’t want to meet. They don’t care about cancelling games in April and May, as long as they get more playoff teams and the TV money that will bring.

Instead of Bryce going to Japan, can we send the owners and the commissioner?

If the NFL opened training camps May 1st, the Phils would be hard pressed to get more than 10,000 to a game after this!

Don't expect these clowns to do what's best for the game. This is all posturing, a roomful of Kroenke type fat cats. Money is all that matters. Dewitt lost my loyalty a few years ago with his whining that the club didn't generate enough revenue, despite the valuation of the franchise going through the stratosphere. I don't buy tickets or merchandise. I watch from afar.

We will see a repeat of '94-95, fans will be turned off in droves. They will realize they need us more than we need them...

That said, I'm a little older, and I recall what is used to cost for a ticket to a ballgame back when the evil owners had more power. As the players have gained leverage over the last 40-45 years, I can hardly afford to attend games anymore. It doesn't take a computer program to see the direct relation between rising annual player salaries and rising ticket/parking costs. Not to mention these guys making $25-35 mil a year, jacking up the costs of tickets, but not playing every day, so my ticket costs are through the roof, and there a solid chance I won't even get to seen Captain Universe play because the $30 million man needs a rest day.

Rising ticket prices have very little to do with rising player salaries, just like increased prices at chipotle have nothing to do with increased pay for employees. It has to do with owners wanting a larger profit margin and knowing that the players are the ones who look like the bad guys when these debates typically arise.

The Braves last year made $6m profit…PER GAME. I’m sure the owners could afford to drop ticket/concessions just a little if they wanted/cared. The fact is they don’t. It’s nothing but a business to them.

" Quote post by fatguyrd on 3/1/2022 10:40:00 PM:
My biggest problem with the owners is they didn’t care! The instituted the lock out, they didn’t want to meet. "

Respectfully, and I know there's others with similar sentiment as yours and I'm certainly not picking a side since we're all surrounded by idiots from both sides, but a lot of this in context is just simply not true. Perhaps colored somewhat by which side your on and/or not on.

This sucks. It really sucks that we can't just play ball. But in the meantime, here's what's going on and how I remember the timeline and actions and motivations. '94 strike. Both sides have been blamed for their role, including owners "choosing" to lockout. They didn't choose to lockout. They chose in somewhat a manner of good faith bargaining to offer to start a new season continuing with an agreement THAT HAD EXPIRED. They didn't have to.

Once that happened, now the control moves to the players who could threaten and indeed follow thru with give us what we want or we'll shut down your season and its World Series. They didn't have to. But they did. I would've much rather watched Tom Glavine pitch brilliantly every few days than walk to a podium pretending in now I'm a lawyer speak parrot what jerks the owners were.

Fast-forward all these years later and that's what the owners remember. At all costs it will not happen again. Btw, last I checked this time around, they were giving in to 99% of player demands. Thats not much of a negotiation. But we're fans of players and not owners, so we have to make it seem like if it's anyone's fault, it must be the owners. Players are just as culpable.

Posted by chargingryno on 3/1/2022 9:49:00 PM (view original):

That said, I'm a little older, and I recall what is used to cost for a ticket to a ballgame back when the evil owners had more power. As the players have gained leverage over the last 40-45 years, I can hardly afford to attend games anymore. It doesn't take a computer program to see the direct relation between rising annual player salaries and rising ticket/parking costs. Not to mention these guys making $25-35 mil a year, jacking up the costs of tickets, but not playing every day, so my ticket costs are through the roof, and there a solid chance I won't even get to seen Captain Universe play because the $30 million man needs a rest day.

Rising ticket prices have very little to do with rising player salaries, just like increased prices at chipotle have nothing to do with increased pay for employees. It has to do with owners wanting a larger profit margin and knowing that the players are the ones who look like the bad guys when these debates typically arise.

The Braves last year made $6m profit…PER GAME. I’m sure the owners could afford to drop ticket/concessions just a little if they wanted/cared. The fact is they don’t. It’s nothing but a business to them.

Have you ever owned your own business? You can't really believe that an increase in minimum wage has nothing to do with an increased price of food at Chipotle. The two are most obviously related.

When salaries go up, prices go. Period. Owners are there to make money- are they just supposed to eat the increased salaries and benefits out of the goodness of their heart?

When salaries go up, the margins change. It’s up to the corporations/owners to dictate where the margins hit. They choose to prices because 1) it continues to fill their pockets with $$$$ and 2) because it paints the workers as the bad guys. It’s correlation not causation.

Posted by RedRaiderLaw on 3/2/2022 12:34:00 AM (view original):

Posted by chargingryno on 3/1/2022 9:49:00 PM (view original):

That said, I'm a little older, and I recall what is used to cost for a ticket to a ballgame back when the evil owners had more power. As the players have gained leverage over the last 40-45 years, I can hardly afford to attend games anymore. It doesn't take a computer program to see the direct relation between rising annual player salaries and rising ticket/parking costs. Not to mention these guys making $25-35 mil a year, jacking up the costs of tickets, but not playing every day, so my ticket costs are through the roof, and there a solid chance I won't even get to seen Captain Universe play because the $30 million man needs a rest day.

Rising ticket prices have very little to do with rising player salaries, just like increased prices at chipotle have nothing to do with increased pay for employees. It has to do with owners wanting a larger profit margin and knowing that the players are the ones who look like the bad guys when these debates typically arise.

The Braves last year made $6m profit…PER GAME. I’m sure the owners could afford to drop ticket/concessions just a little if they wanted/cared. The fact is they don’t. It’s nothing but a business to them.

Have you ever owned your own business? You can't really believe that an increase in minimum wage has nothing to do with an increased price of food at Chipotle. The two are most obviously related.

When salaries go up, prices go. Period. Owners are there to make money- are they just supposed to eat the increased salaries and benefits out of the goodness of their heart?

What applies to Chipotle does not apply to MLB ownership.
Between Television revenue and Merchandise revenue each team pockets about 180 million each year before selling tickets, parking and concessions.

There are probably other revenue sources and new ones on the way.
MLB ticket on cable is probably more revenue.

I think there is more then enough money.

Posted by Jetson21 on 3/2/2022 1:12:00 AM (view original):

Posted by RedRaiderLaw on 3/2/2022 12:34:00 AM (view original):

Posted by chargingryno on 3/1/2022 9:49:00 PM (view original):

That said, I'm a little older, and I recall what is used to cost for a ticket to a ballgame back when the evil owners had more power. As the players have gained leverage over the last 40-45 years, I can hardly afford to attend games anymore. It doesn't take a computer program to see the direct relation between rising annual player salaries and rising ticket/parking costs. Not to mention these guys making $25-35 mil a year, jacking up the costs of tickets, but not playing every day, so my ticket costs are through the roof, and there a solid chance I won't even get to seen Captain Universe play because the $30 million man needs a rest day.

Rising ticket prices have very little to do with rising player salaries, just like increased prices at chipotle have nothing to do with increased pay for employees. It has to do with owners wanting a larger profit margin and knowing that the players are the ones who look like the bad guys when these debates typically arise.

The Braves last year made $6m profit…PER GAME. I’m sure the owners could afford to drop ticket/concessions just a little if they wanted/cared. The fact is they don’t. It’s nothing but a business to them.

Have you ever owned your own business? You can't really believe that an increase in minimum wage has nothing to do with an increased price of food at Chipotle. The two are most obviously related.

When salaries go up, prices go. Period. Owners are there to make money- are they just supposed to eat the increased salaries and benefits out of the goodness of their heart?

What applies to Chipotle does not apply to MLB ownership.
Between Television revenue and Merchandise revenue each team pockets about 180 million each year before selling tickets, parking and concessions.

There are probably other revenue sources and new ones on the way.
MLB ticket on cable is probably more revenue.

I think there is more then enough money.

I didn't pick the Chipotle example. But Yes, what applies Chipotle does apply to any franchise owner, including pro sports franchises. Perhaps not perfectly, but recouping purchase costs, salaries, overhead, risk of a pandemic, etc. factor into the cost of the products we consume, be they entertainment or sludge in a tortilla.

And let's not overlook that the revenue example put forward involved the World Series winner. The Braves revenue last year was bumped pretty well by that championship run. I'd like charingryno to breakdown those numbers for the Miami Marlins who averaged less than 8000 ticket sales for each home game in 2021. I bet they sold a ton of parking, food and merch.

Jetson, you talk about all that revenue as if all teams get equal revenue off merch and television. They don't. Revenue sharing helps balance it a little, but guess what one of the major sticking points is for players in this negotiation? The players want a $100 million DECREASE in franchise revenue sharing. So the small market teams like the Marlins get poorer, and the Dodgers get keep more money and get richer, which is fine, except that it's already no coincidence the Dodgers, Yankees, Cubs and Red Sox sign so many big-name players.

Are owners innocent victims? Heck no. I'm not saying that all. The blame goes BOTH ways. I'm simply saying that to assert increased salaries have no bearing on ticket prices is inaccurate. Increased costs get passed down to the end-line consumer, whether that's watching a baseball game or getting fast food. Facts of life.

The only people who love labor unions nowadays (not saying they haven't served a valuable purpose historically) are union members and people who've never stood in line at the post office.

The revenues I mentioned were the averages of what the teams get. They are not as disparate as ticket sales.
A baseball team is also a public trust and not a corporate giant.
Athletes are a different type of employee then in any other type of business.
People do not flock to a Chipotle to watch the waiter who is also easily replaceable like a widget.

Players have a small window of compensation and a good player is not easily replaced by another good MLB player.

Perhaps MLB needs a mediation program with audits of all the accounting factors to figure out what is fair or not.

As for unions I’d like to see good polling to support your position. Almost everyone has a close family member who was or is in a union that protected them and gave them a living wage.

Unions exist now for the same reasons that they had to come into being.
They don’t suddenly fail to serve their purpose.
In a capitalist country only unions give a voice to the workers and a say and protections because “ Owners usually have limitations to their fairness and benevolence. Capitalism is a mirror of human nature so I can’t believe you have a dislike to unions.
They are as necessary as the FDA or OSHA. They are always needed.

“Increased costs get passed down to the end-line consumer, whether that's watching a baseball game or getting fast food. Facts of life.”

Maybe you misunderstood my point. I’m not saying what you say isn’t what’s happening, it is. I’m saying they don’t need to. They’re not directly related, except for the fact that owners force the relationship.

As for using the Braves, they’re the only team to post their financials at this point that I’ve found for 2021, but I guarantee you the Marlins still make a tremendous profit.

If higher ticket prices were the causation of higher player salaries, then the top ticket prices would be the top payroll teams.

top 10 payrolls in 2021:

1. LAD
2. NYY
3. NYM
4. HOU
5. PHI
6. BOS
7. LAA
8. SD
9.SF
10. STL

The 13th highest payroll Team had the highest avg ticket prices