Closer Topic

moethedog
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OK..Here's my Closer from last year.

Gutierrez

He wasn't bad....but his contract is up and he wants $3.6M next year (the same contract he previously had...negotiated pre-me). I'm not inclined to pay and would use that salary elsewhere (I'm looking for a topnotch CF...I have about $10 million more coming off the books and was under budget anyway)). $3.6 seems a lot for a Closer.

I have these guys available. GrayCedenoMolina

I'm inclined to go with Gray, first. Then Cedeno. Then Molina (who spent the year at AAA but is $4M in sunk costs for the next season).

So...How much will you pay a Closer? Would you resign Gutierrez? If not...who do you go with?
3/20/2010 4:37 PM
tecwrg
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First, Gutierrez does not have closer stuff. A .287 OAV and a 3.59 ERA is not who you want closing your games. So you're good with letting him walk.

Second, $3.6m is not unreasonable for a top-notch closer. In fact, it's pretty cheap. If you can find one at that price, you'd be foolish to pass on him.

Third, of the three pitchers you listed, Molina is the best because of his splits. But his pitches suck for a closer. You want to get a guy with short reliever DUR/STA with maybe only two pitches, but those pitches should be in the 80's or higher to be a quality closer. To go along with good splits and good control, of course.
3/20/2010 4:48 PM
iain
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Tec makes three solid points.

Gray and Cedeno are decent, but not great RPs. Molina and Gutierrez are pretty solid Set Up A kinda guys. I'd be inclined to try using them all on quick hooks (4, maybe even 5 depending on how skittish you are in the 8th/9th inning).

A truly not notch closer can run you 5-7 mil, but should also have the right DUR/STA to pitch 1-2 IP almost every day.
3/20/2010 5:21 PM
usfbully
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Quote: Originally Posted By iain on 3/20/2010
Tec makes three solid points.

Gray and Cedeno are decent, but not great RPs. Molina and Gutierrez are pretty solid Set Up A kinda guys. I'd be inclined to try using them all on quick hooks (4, maybe even 5 depending on how skittish you are in the 8th/9th inning).

A truly not notch closer can run you 5-7 mil, but should also have the right DUR/STA to pitch 1-2 IP almost every day.



I disagree with the last part, but that may be because when I have a closer, I only want him to come in for save situations. If that is the case, he will get 40-60 appearances, so you can get away with a lower dur stam. If I dont have a clear cut closer, I go with my 2-3 best as a setup a.
3/20/2010 7:01 PM
nanu
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i disagree with tec and iain in who closes. put gray in there. i've found quality of pitches matters more with closers than it does with setup. generally i'm a splits man myself, but this guy, for example, closes games like a fiend despite average splits:

http://www.whatifsports.com/HBD/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx?pid=1299529

I didn't believe he'd be a decent closer, figured that first 32/36 season was mostly luck. when he struggled out of the gate the next year i sent him back to setup B (12/15 on saves). after a couple years in setup B land, he has returned to closing (had a stud closer one year who blew 9 saves despite lights out ratings) and he's saved 73 of 79. not bad!
3/21/2010 10:50 PM
nanu
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I should elaborate - I think Cesar succeeds bc he has 3 solid pitches. might just be a hare-brained theory. but it is all i can come up with. (that and the outstanding control)
3/21/2010 11:01 PM
soxfan121
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I think that guy is more proof that just about anyone can get 3 outs in the 9th inning. Don't get me wrong - nice pitcher but he'd probably be successful in any RP role.

I do not use ClA of ClB - I set my best guy(s) as SuA 7th inning and have at it. There are pitchers who are suited to the ClA role (90/15 guys) but most of the time SIMMY suggests and owners install a ClA who could pitch 30-50 more effective innings with some flexible thinking.
3/21/2010 11:08 PM
sanderbear
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I'd make Cedeno a RHS. Molina could be a Setup B. I don't like Gray.

Gutierrez is the most closer-worthy of the 4, but he doesn't have great ratings for a closer. The mediocre second pitch and the good-not-great splits just don't cut it.
3/21/2010 11:13 PM
jacob20h
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This is my closer. http://whatifsports.com/HBD/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx?pid=1872742. Has been good for me the last few seasons. Not great control but good splits. Paying him 3 million this season in ARB. Will surely get 5-6 million next season.
3/22/2010 8:33 AM
phillyfan009
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Edgardo Moya

my closer is still making minimum...has done a great job! Considering 11 of the runs were giving up in 3 appearances prior. Just like any closer he is going to get bombed here and there......but is he really worth closer money for my future?
3/22/2010 9:57 AM
tecwrg
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Quote: Originally Posted By phillyfan009 on 3/22/2010Edgardo Moya

my closer is still making minimum...has done a great job! Considering 11 of the runs were giving up in 3 appearances prior. Just like any closer he is going to get bombed here and there......but is he really worth closer money for my future?
Control of 47 for a closer? Good luck with that.
3/22/2010 10:28 AM
MikeT23
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3 walks and no hits = no runs.
3/22/2010 10:44 AM
tecwrg
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He's Don Fullpack Stanhouse.
3/22/2010 11:20 AM
jtrinsey
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With those pitches and velocity and good splits, you would expect him to strikeout a lot of batters and he is. There's not too many guys in HBD, short of the mega-star pitchers, who strikeout more than a batter per inning.

I definitely value control more than any other rating, but I think I would sacrifice some as strikeouts usually become more valuable in high-leverage situations where there are already runners on base.
3/22/2010 11:41 AM
tecwrg
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If you already have a runner on first (for example) a low-control closer risks giving up a walk and moving the runner into scoring position. While I agree that strikeouts are desirable in a high-leverage situation, I would think that the risk of issue walks outweigh the benefits of strikeouts in that scenario.
3/22/2010 12:25 PM
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