Dropping a pitch? Topic

mlhutch
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Anyone have any suggestions on how maximize the probability that Joe Coleman drops his last pitch?

I have had pitchers drop pitches before but I can't seem to get Coleman to shake this one.

I have him paired with a catcher with an 87 PC rating and a solid (relative to LoA) pitching coach.

Thanks for your help in advance!
5/6/2010 9:38 AM
prezuiwf
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Get him under the best pitching coach you can while he's young. That's the best you can do.

I imagine he'll almost certainly drop it with the right coaching, though... I have never seen a 5th pitch that even comes close to being that low. 2?? How did that even get generated?
5/6/2010 9:44 AM
mlhutch
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Trust me, I was surprised too. This is a good lesson in the danger of making assumptions. When I was ranking prospects using projected ratings, I briefly noticed his fifth pitch was projected to 6 and just assumed that it was currently a zero.

It was definitely an oversight on my part but I just thought I could get him to drop it. Hasn't happened yet . . . .
5/6/2010 10:03 AM
firemanrob
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He most likely will not drop it until he gets closer to 27y/o (the age at which projections="current)." I believe that 20 is the threshold which WIS has said a pitch is considered effective. So asssuming it stays below 20, which it probably should then he will likely drop it given time
5/6/2010 11:41 AM
prezuiwf
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Really? I've had pitchers drop bad pitches the year they were drafted. Is there anything out there to make you believe they're more likely to do it when they reach their peak projections?
5/6/2010 12:07 PM
05nomar05
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It's the worst curveball ever!
5/6/2010 1:23 PM
Fregoe
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if you catcher has PC of 87 I am sure he doenst throw it very often anyway so it should be a big deal if it isnt dropped right away
5/6/2010 1:43 PM
tecwrg
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Quote: Originally Posted By Fregoe on 5/06/2010
if you catcher has PC of 87 I am sure he doenst throw it very often anyway so it should be a big deal if it isnt dropped right away

I thought that it was pretty much accepted as common knowledge by now that catchers don't call individual pitches.
5/6/2010 1:48 PM
opie100
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He throws it underhanded.
5/6/2010 2:00 PM
timf
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Why would you want him to drop a pitch? Even if it's a bad pitch it has been said many times by dev's that a 5th pitch, even very bad, is more effective than not having a 5th pitch.
5/6/2010 3:38 PM
prezuiwf
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That's true when it's a 20+. Not a freaking 2.
5/6/2010 3:46 PM
tecwrg
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Quote: Originally Posted By prezuiwf on 5/06/2010That's true when it's a 20+. Not a freaking 2
+1.

There is a point of diminishing values of having a fifth pitch over not having a fifth pitch. Like prez sez, it's somewhere in the 20's.
5/6/2010 5:46 PM
timf
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Quote: Originally Posted By tecwrg on 5/06/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By prezuiwf on 5/06/2010
That's true when it's a 20+. Not a freaking 2.
+1.

There is a point of diminishing values of having a fifth pitch over not having a fifth pitch. Like prez sez, it's somewhere in the 20's.



Have any of the Dev's said this or is this speculation? I'd like to know for sure because in real life I would 100% agree but I can't find anywhere that what you are saying is correct.
5/7/2010 2:00 PM
tecwrg
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Quote: Originally Posted By timf on 5/07/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By tecwrg on 5/06/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By prezuiwf on 5/06/2010
That's true when it's a 20+. Not a freaking 2.
+1.

There is a point of diminishing values of having a fifth pitch over not having a fifth pitch. Like prez sez, it's somewhere in the 20's.




Have any of the Dev's said this or is this speculation? I'd like to know for sure because in real life I would 100% agree but I can't find anywhere that what you are saying is correct.
1) This Q/A from the 1/21/2009 HBD Developers Chat seems to imply the "diminishing values" portion of my statement:

One of my Ace starters has his 5th pitch rated at 18. In 10 seasons I've had the best pitching coach in the world on couple of occasions but he did not drop that 5th pitch. Better yet, why is he even trying to throw this pitch knowing he has 4 better ones to chose from? (radek - Hall of Famer - 3:24 PM)

A pitching coach makes the decision whether having a pitch helps or hinders a pitcher based on his overall number and grades of pitches. If it makes more sense to keep a pitch (a show-me pitch), then it won't be dropped.

2) The "somewhere in the 20's" is my own speculation. Anything lower than that, I assume it's a liability. Nothing at all to back that up but my own idea of what seems reasonable. The fact that the pitcher in question above did not drop an 18 may imply that an 18 is in fact acceptable, at least for that particular player.
5/7/2010 2:11 PM
mlhutch
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5/7/2010 3:23 PM
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