The overall rating dropped, but the potential has increased. Just because a big starts at say 14 per, doesn't mean he doesn't have the potential to end at 72 or whatever - same with guards. We'll see how it plays out in 4 seasons, and keep in mind that they are still always changing it. 

Don't look at their diversity as freshmen, but the diversity of what they will be as they develop - potential.

I did a search for PF/C with 35+ spd and 50+ reb in allen and got 119 players, 18 of which aren't even on the D1 screen.  There are also 36 SG and SF that meet those criteria.

http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/RecruitProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&rid=1744198


This guy certainly isn't top 50. 

There are 29 guards with LP and Rebounding over 30, and many of them are d2/d3 level. 

Posted by reinsel on 6/18/2010 8:51:00 PM (view original):
http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/RecruitProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&rid=1744198


This guy certainly isn't top 50. 

There are 29 guards with LP and Rebounding over 30, and many of them are d2/d3 level. 

"The selected recruit is not found"

I did a search for ATH 40, Spd, 35, RBD 50 for PF/C in Naismith.  There is one viable D-I pulldown and 1 D-II player who is across the country from me.

Before, that number would be 75+.

There are ZERO  viable PF/C recruits with ATH/SPD/ 40 RBD 50.  At D-1 or D-II that are not top 50. 

Before there would be 50+.

Both are massive DECREASES in diversity because they are drastic cuts in big men with decent speed.

Posted by reinsel on 6/18/2010 8:51:00 PM (view original):
http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/RecruitProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&rid=1744198


This guy certainly isn't top 50. 

There are 29 guards with LP and Rebounding over 30, and many of them are d2/d3 level. 

There are 2 D-II SG recruits(neither of them viable) with ATH/rebounding over 40.

There are a TOTAL of 5 D-I SG recruits with ATH/RBD over 40.

Posted by furry_nipps on 6/18/2010 7:42:00 PM (view original):
The overall rating dropped, but the potential has increased. Just because a big starts at say 14 per, doesn't mean he doesn't have the potential to end at 72 or whatever - same with guards. We'll see how it plays out in 4 seasons, and keep in mind that they are still always changing it. 

I'm willing to see how it plays out over 4 seasons, certainly and with potentials, but right now, their base values appear MUCH less diverse.

grant, I think you're confusing a lack of diversity with a lowering of ratings.

I honestly can't imagine anyone looking at recruit generation before and after and really thinking that there's less diversity now.

Even your last statement above --  "their base value appear much less diverse" -- I think really means "their base values are lower". There was precious little recruit diversity in the old engine. Now there are more bigs that can pass, shoot or dribble, more guards with lp or reb, etc. But you have to accept the fact that starting ratings are lower across the board (and they truly needed to be to fix DI), so that whereas maybe 50 in a category was good to start with before, now it might be 40.

Yeah, the base values are just lower. 

Posted by dalter on 6/18/2010 9:49:00 PM (view original):
grant, I think you're confusing a lack of diversity with a lowering of ratings.

I honestly can't imagine anyone looking at recruit generation before and after and really thinking that there's less diversity now.

Even your last statement above --  "their base value appear much less diverse" -- I think really means "their base values are lower". There was precious little recruit diversity in the old engine. Now there are more bigs that can pass, shoot or dribble, more guards with lp or reb, etc. But you have to accept the fact that starting ratings are lower across the board (and they truly needed to be to fix DI), so that whereas maybe 50 in a category was good to start with before, now it might be 40.

I disagree, perhaps not overall, but on my original points.  Primarily because there are still lots of high speed guards.   Ratings may be lower across the board, but there are still plenty of guards with 60-70 spd ratings coming out.  There flat aren't enough bigs with spd ratings above 35. 

Before we saw both slow and fast big men.  Now we don't.  We saw a range before from about 10 spd up to about 65.  Now it's more from 10-35.  That's a decrease in diversity, is it not?

I also don't see any guards that are "good rebounders" as I pointed out before at the low D-1/D-II level.  Feel free to point some out if you see them.I would think we'd see some guards with ATH 40 RB 40 if they were truly going for diversity. There were a total of 5 at D-I and 2 at D-II(one of which had a WE of 1).

We can nitpick back and forth about various points, sure, but I will stand firmly behind: Big men need a speed increase in their base ratings.

SInce good rebounding guards go against other good rebounding guards and not good rebounding bigs, what difference does it make?  ANd having it so the best rebounding guards aren't as good of rebounders as mediocre bigs, I'm sorry, makes sense.  And likewise with speed - and low post.

As for your speed search. . huh?

I just did a search on bigs:  I've gone down the first three hundred players sorted by speed and have yet to find ANY speeds under 41, so I'm not sure where you are getting this 10 - 35 range.

96 of those also have 50+ reb
.  
in wooden there are close to 200 post players meeting that 40/50 mark.

Likewise, sorted by rebounding, fifteen guards with over 40 rebounding and 100 with over thirty.



(Keeo in mind, this is pre potential only)



 

Although in an interesting twist, I just searched Phelan and there were 125 bigs with speeds over 40.  So apparently it can vary greatly between worlds and/or recruit batches.

91 of those also have rebounding over 50

I don't care for the new recruit generation. It has too far away from true position players to hybrids in my opinion. I was excited when I first heard what was going to happen but I didn't think it'd be this extreme. Good ideal, it just needs to be balanced. Some true position players and some hybrids.

Define a true position player, just for information:  GIve some example numbers.