Selective tanking? Topic

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I believe in karma. If are trying to get a matchup you want and get it, you will lose. Murphy's law.

However, I also believe in you owe other teams nothing. If you are fielding that team that was for that purpose, you owe nothing to the guy that's trying to get into the playoffs and you're playing the team he's trying to catch. Too bad. So sad. Should have had a better record and you wouldn't be in this spot.
10/20/2010 1:08 PM
I don't believe anyone owes another team anything.  I've taken both sides of that argument in that I've ran my best out there in an effort to win "for the other guy" and I've said, after clinching, "If you need me to win for you down the stretch, you're in trouble.  I've got fatigue issues and my call-ups are playing the last 8."  
10/20/2010 1:13 PM
Once you've clinched a playoff spot, your sole responsibility is to your own team and making the lineup decisions that puts you in the best position for the post-season.  If that means resting position players who are fatigued and starting lesser players in their place, then so be it.  Likewise with manipulating your pitching rotation so that it's lined up the way you want it for your first series.

If you've been eliminated, then it's a similar but not identical situation.  Rest your fatigued guys to lower risk of major injury that could impact you next season (or affect the ratings of a potential departing FA).  But I personally will try to take into consideration who I'm playing down the stretch, and if I'm facing a series against an opponent whose fate is still undecided, I'll try to make them earn victories against me rather than roll over and play all my call-ups.  It's a fine balance.
10/20/2010 1:31 PM
That doesn't really address the point of the thread.    Your playoff appearance is secured.  Now you're playing games in order to manipulate your match-up.   It's not greatly different than what you describe but it is.   Instead of attempting to move up a spot, maintain your spot or rest your starters for future games, you're playing to set up a particular opponent.    I guess the best way to describe it(and make it a reality), is that you're 5/6.   You're playing the other guy fighting for the same spot in the last series.  You'd rather play the 3 seed than the 4 seed.   So you play all your call-ups in that series.   Whereas, if you really wanted to play the 4, you'd play your starters(assuming they're not fatigued).    As I said, no one would really know what you're doing because it's not a HUGE deviation from what you'd normally do.
10/20/2010 3:00 PM
Yeah, I understand. 

I guess my point is (for me, personally): once I clinch a post-season spot, the only thing that really matters is if I have a shot at 1/2 (first round bye), or if I will be in the 3/4/5/6 bracket.  If I have to play the first round, I really don't care who I'm playing or what my seeding is.  You still gotta win the games.  If I'm "afraid" of a particular team, like DIAH says, karma will probably kick in and you'll end up having to play them at some point anyway.  So why try to manipulate your seeding in the first place (unless it's trying to get the 1 or 2 seed, which is much more important than 3/4/5/6).

If you're that concerned about who you're playing, then you probably are not looking at a deep run into the post-season unless you have some luck on your side.  And if you have to rely on luck, then it doesn't really matter who you're playing.
10/20/2010 3:21 PM (edited)
I dont think a team destine for the playoffs can be called a tanking team. 
I guess you'd have to come up with a more detailed definition for tanking..
I think if you're losing on purpose or filling your team with crap players to improve your draft spot you're a tanker
 If you're adjusting your roster to better prepare your team for post season play and can afford to do so, thats a right that you earned by suceeding throughout the year.
10/20/2010 3:23 PM
Dammit.  I know what you're saying but it doesn't address the point of the thread.   Take it a step further.  You don't care who you have to play in the first round but you'd rather not play one of the top seeds until the LCS.   That gives you an extra round to hope they lose and you won't have to face them.

Seriously, it's just a question of right/wrong in your head.   There's really no way anyone would know.   Much like the Yankees facing the Twins.   Regardless of what anyone says you know the Yankees wanted the Twins over the Rangers in the first round. 
10/20/2010 3:23 PM
Are you simply asking if it falls under the heading of "tanking," or if it's wrong to do so because you'd be a tanker?  If you relate it to real life, no manager would ever get away with admitting he played his 26-40 guys on the roster so he could pick his matchup.  Everyone involved with the team keeps an attitude of, "We don't care who we play, we're competitors and will put our best product on the field every day regardless of who we're playing."  I wonder how much of that there is in the hotel rooms at night, or if it's, "Man, I hope the Giants lose so we don't have to play the Phillies the first round."

Tanking isn't the same as resting fatigued starters, though the only difference is intent.  The action is the same.
10/20/2010 3:28 PM
Just read your last response.  In HBD, I don't think it's wrong, though it would never fly publicly in real life.
10/20/2010 3:30 PM
And to be clear, it's still tanking.  Tanking = trying to lose.  It's just not in the same league as trying to lose all year so you get a higher draft pick.
10/20/2010 3:31 PM
Your point is not obvious, as evidenced by the number of people that don't have clue one as to what you want.
10/20/2010 3:34 PM
Its all good in my eyes. Although in a sim game I'm not sure if I would do something like that to avoid an opponent.  HBD is far from real life, in RL 110 win teams rarely lose to 90 win, in SIM it happens almost every time.
10/20/2010 3:37 PM
My point is very obvious.   I think all of us would play our best if it was the difference between the 6th seed or missing the playoffs.   But, if that last series is the difference between the 5/6 seed and you have no interest in playing the 4 seed, I think most of us would at least consider playing a different game.

And, to address mhulshult, of course the party line is "We're doing our best, trying to win every game" in MLB but, as we've seen over the years, some teams haven't done that.   One difference is A-Roid doesn't have a 98% next to his name on the roster.   But does he need three games off in the last week in order to be rested?   There's no doubt that every player, on the field, is doing his best to win.  But not all of them are on the field.
10/20/2010 3:41 PM
I think I have addressed the point of your thread, just in a roundabout way.  I'll take a shot at a more direct response.

I don't think it's tanking to play your call-ups after you've clinched a playoff spot, no matter what your intent is  Assuming your 26-40 guys are legitimate prospects, most likely in AAA, then they are either ML ready or very close to ML ready.  No problems at all with playing them, unless you do something blatant like sign a tryout camp guy for spot #40 and throw him in the ML rotation.
10/20/2010 3:46 PM (edited)
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