Just for the sake of a general idea, I'd like to hear your experiences on how many seasons it took for you to figure out recruiting, player distro, gameplanning and so forth and really start to feel like you knew what you're doing?

I'm sure that whatever your answers are, I have a long way to go, but maybe having some general idea of a timeline would give me a little more inspiration and willingness to stick it out in HD.

I started out thinking I knew more than I really did (lifelong basketball fan here), and as a result most of my team is composed of players with crappy ATH/SPD and DEF.   My won/loss record is so bad I should probably be fired if D2 fired people.  I didn't help myself much my second season, either, and now that I finally understand a bit more about pulldowns, I'm fighting an uphill battle with a D+ prestige in the outback of western Texas.  I cannot go head-to-head against teams with higher prestige when my best targets are 300 miles away and I'm running low on money.

I'm sure it's possible to do this right and gradually raise your prestige (which makes a lot of other things easier), but the question is whether it's worth it.

I'm in for at least one more season, but I suspect that if I don't learn from all of my mistakes by next season and start seeing signs of hope, I'm going to be very tempted to chuck it.  That rankles me, because I'm not a quitter.  I know I can do this - the question is when?

Having input from experienced players so far has really helped teach me, but the final decisions are still mine and I'm still making mistakes.  How long before you stopped goofing things up and made some headway? :)

My first really solid recruiting class took me 3 recruiting sessions. A couple years after that I made the PT championship game, then the NT for two years after that. Also, I sent a *lot* of sitemails to various coaches getting advice.

Why did you move to DII before you had the hang of DIII?

Posted by pjbrankin on 1/29/2011 7:06:00 PM (view original):
Why did you move to DII before you had the hang of DIII?

This is a good point. DIII is the best place to learn.

I would highly recommend taking a look at who the consistently successful DII and DIII coaches are in your world, and sitemailing them. Also, take a look at the kinds of players they recruit, what sort of categories they emphasize, etc.

My first team was WConn State in Allen. I was clueless. My first recruit was a guard with 1 sp (the FAQ told me to emphasize bh/pa for the offense I ran).

I got input from a handful of very successful coaches, took Redlands in Naismith, and was able to apply what I learned to be successful.

ok, my story - my 1st season at D III we went to 2nd rd of PIT and won 22 games, and I moved up to D II fully convinced I knew what I was doing. in 3 seasons I made no headway, and didn't really feel I knew what I was doing anymore, so i dropped back to D III for a while (7 seasons). I cherry picked a pretty good team, but only got a 1st rd NT loss out of it and lost half the team to graduation, so I jumped to a better long term prospect (I hoped).  I made a few NTs (and by now I was playing multiple worlds, so my experiences here are multiplied by like 4), so I moved up to D I. I had an ok season there, but another world was eligible for Alabama, and I only wanted to struggle with 1 D I learning process at a time, so I went back down to the school I'd spent 4 seasons with, Valdosta St. Went to Sweet 16 that season, and finally really felt like I had a handle on things. Back to back 1st round losses hsd me questioning things, but then I went Sweet 16 again, and then lost the title game, while winning the D II title in another world. 

tl, dr: took me about 10 seasons to become decent, another 40 or so over multiple worlds to win a title. Hang in there.

Immediately

it took me til my seventh season. in the beginning of my career i took over a respectable redlands team and in six seasons i took them from annual nt participants to NT/PIT one and done experts. when i was near quitting i decided to reach out to the community and ask for help. by then i lost my stubborness, and my ego and finally excepted that i didn't know how to recruit, gameplan or even schedule correctly. i went to all the great coaches in my conference and asked for help. i went to the community and surfed for coaches that seemed to know what they were talking about and sent out question after question through sitemails. and to this day i owe many coaches for my tremendous success. i was able to mesh all that knowledge and prosper. since so many were helpful i have always vowed that i would not deny a coach the answer if they had a question.

2nd season at DIII.  It was in Knight.  I went from clueless coach to head of a major DIII dynasty that I regret abandoning.  But at the time I didn't have time for HD. Since then though I've turned around a couple of other DIII doormats (DePauw in Allen, Frostburg State in Smith [which was short-lived because the coach who took over after I left drove them back into the ground]).  I still remain unsuccessful though not necessarily disreputable at DI though. 

I never became respectable.

Posted by pjbrankin on 1/29/2011 7:06:00 PM (view original):
Why did you move to DII before you had the hang of DIII?

That D3 season was the freebie WiS was giving away a few years ago.  I didn't enjoy it enough to keep going so I left for a few years.

Then last fall I got the bug to play, and arbitrarily decided to go D2.  No particular reason - any more than I have any reason to pick Abilene Christian.  Basically, I jumped in without knowing what I was doing.

This season I thought I could get at least one pulldown in my quest to bump my prestige and win some games.  My mistake was trying to get 2 pulldowns when my school is in the middle of BFE Texas and I only had budget for 2 scholarships.  I'll know better next season and probably recruit "light", not filling all of my openings so I can have a bit more money.  I'll also not try to pulldown more than 1 player when my prestige is so crappy.

The thought has crossed my mind to drop back to D3, but I'm stubborn.  I want to at least prove to myself that I can be moderately successful against the odds I have, even if it takes me 7 or 10 or 12 seasons to do it.  From what some of you are saying, that might be what is required.

OR I could switch to a program where I could start with a clean slate, either D2 or D3.  That just feels to me like quitting, but I want to learn this system and I can hang up my pride for a while until I do.

I have been playing for too many season to count and I am still a doormat. I believe I have recruiting down but the game planning and setting up of my teams still eludes me. I have taken a couple teems to sweet 16 but no further and I would not say that I am a consistant NT participant at all. I enjoy this game emensly though and am starting to seek some help to make me even better.
I am confident that people can figure this game out for themselves and not have to rely on others help but in the long run you will become a better coach much sooner if you seek the advice of those that have been highly successful in this game.

Posted by uglyskunk3 on 1/29/2011 8:22:00 PM (view original):
it took me til my seventh season. in the beginning of my career i took over a respectable redlands team and in six seasons i took them from annual nt participants to NT/PIT one and done experts. when i was near quitting i decided to reach out to the community and ask for help. by then i lost my stubborness, and my ego and finally excepted that i didn't know how to recruit, gameplan or even schedule correctly. i went to all the great coaches in my conference and asked for help. i went to the community and surfed for coaches that seemed to know what they were talking about and sent out question after question through sitemails. and to this day i owe many coaches for my tremendous success. i was able to mesh all that knowledge and prosper. since so many were helpful i have always vowed that i would not deny a coach the answer if they had a question.

Thanks, Ugly, I should add that you've been one of the guys who has really helped me to understand the way things work.  I may still be stumbling a bit, but it's not because you've given me bad advice.  You've actually pointed me in the direction I need to go, and I appreciate that.

I'm not so sure it's any worse to learn in D2 compared to D3.  After my very first season I moved straight up to D2, and I'm not sure how I might have benefited from staying in D3 for longer. 

I have played a total of 8 or 9 seasons in D3, never had too much success there, but I did decent in D2 and especially D1.

My first team was a complete rebuild with only 3 returning players. I didn't know about the 6 freshmen rule, took 3 walkon as a result, and then thought I had to sign the walkons or they will leave the team and leave me with 9 players. This obviously was bad, and I had to cut 3 players and fill 4 spots the following season, with only 1 scholarship money. My 3rd/4th season was when I figured it out and started pulling down, etc, and had a 21-9 season in my 4th year.