2 Good pitches vs 1 better one Topic

tommy_cian
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I'm still confused about how this works.

Is it better to have a pitcher that has two pitches, and 85 and a 70 or another pitcher that has two pitches, an 80 and a 78.  Is the answer the same whether the pitcher is a starter or reliever?

Any help would be great...

8/3/2011 12:46 PM
RoyalOkie
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I opt for the higher one pitch, but consider control and other issues as more important.  I also tend to use a 90+ PC catcher.
8/3/2011 6:16 PM
deathinahole
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From the first dev chat. Don't believe it's changed.

Can you explain a little more about the relationship between the number of pitches a pitcher has and the quality of his pitches. (swamphawk22 - Hall of Famer - 3:45 PM)
A pitcher with 3 80-rated pitches has an advantage over a pitcher with 2 80-rated pitches. It depends on the quality of pitches. A guy with a dominant #1 pitch and two average secondary pitches will be better than a guy with 3 average pitches. It works like how you'd expect. A guy who continues to include a very weak pitch will give up the homer more often. A good pitching coach will get that guy to drop the weak pitch, making him a better pitcher. This typically occurs in the offseason.
8/3/2011 6:35 PM
tecwrg
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I would take the 80/78 over the 85/70 on the basis of the second pitch (78 vs 70).  I don't think the difference between the first pitches (85 vs 80) is that significant, as they are both very good.  But I think 78 is more in the "very" good range as opposed to 70, which I would consider is the "pretty" good range.
8/3/2011 6:53 PM
tommy_cian
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what about a guy with three pitches 85, 75, 50 against a guy with 2 pitches 85, 75.  Everything else being equal...
8/3/2011 8:07 PM
tecwrg
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Three pitches are better than two, unless the third pitch is somewhere around 30 or less.

85/75/50 is definitely better than 85/75.
8/3/2011 8:41 PM
deathinahole
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I 2nd that emotion.
8/3/2011 8:45 PM
zbrent716
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Similar question for you (and fair warning, I have had an exchange with upper-level CS about, so I know what the "official" answer is - and I will share it):

Pitcher A - 82, 65, 59, 49, 35
Pitcher B - 74, 70, 51
8/4/2011 11:37 AM
wilhitec
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pitcher A...I'm thinking pitches 4 and 5 are still useful even at a 49 and 35
8/4/2011 11:54 AM (edited)
tecwrg
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Definitely A.
8/4/2011 11:52 AM
dedelman
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IMO the difference between A and B is very small here.

It is said that pitchers "use their most effective pitches more."   However, since the engine sims plate appearances and not individual pitches, what that means is that the overall pitch rating that is used by the engine is a weighted average of all the pitches, and the 3rd-best pitch carries a lower weight than the best two.  This return diminishes even more for P4 and P5.

By the time you get to the 3rd most effective pitch, it's carrying only a small percentage of the influence the pitches have on the sim, and then, IMO, pitches don't have all that huge an effect on the sim, anyway (compared to control, splits).  So, while my gut says A, the difference in my opinion is probably miniscule, no more than 2% and probably less than 1%.

8/4/2011 12:13 PM
pstrnutbag44
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Posted by zbrent716 on 8/4/2011 11:37:00 AM (view original):
Similar question for you (and fair warning, I have had an exchange with upper-level CS about, so I know what the "official" answer is - and I will share it):

Pitcher A - 82, 65, 59, 49, 35
Pitcher B - 74, 70, 51
I thought the magic # was 45? I could've swore it was you who directed me to that info....
8/4/2011 3:44 PM
cp49
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I don't see how Pitcher A couldn't be better. He has more pitches. His 1st and 3rd pitches are better, 2nd isn't far behind but maybe the 5th one is a problem?
8/4/2011 4:35 PM
tecwrg
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35 is borderline.  Not going to help much, but not going to hurt too badly.  P1-P3 more than compensate for it.
8/4/2011 6:38 PM
maxdeardorff
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So, zbrent716, what's the answer?  I assume that pitcher A is superior, though from the dramatic introduction I also expect a surprise.  I do notice that A's pitch average is 58, and B's pitch average is 65...
8/4/2011 6:52 PM
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