Trade advice Topic

phuckinphils
Posts: 3 (0)
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5
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Would you do this trade, or would you ask for a 3rd person and if you would ask for a third how good?

My two guys:

Joakim Guerrero 22yo 2b
General & Fielding Ratings
Event Season Height Weight OV RA GL AS AA PC DU HE SP PA TP MK
Current - 5-11 177 74 91 65 56 62 7 69 95 87 62 38 75
Projected - 5-11 190 87 93 78 56 85 7 77 95 87 75 32 78
Spring Training 16 5-9 171 67 88 60 55 56 7 65 92 87 57 38 72
Spring Training 17 5-11 177 73 91 63 56 60 7 69 95 87 62 38 75
Opening Day 17 5-11 177 74 91 64 56 61 7 69 95 87 62 38 75
RegularSeason 17 5-11 177 74 91 64 56 61 7 69 95 87 62 38 75
RegularSeason 17 5-11 177 74 91 65 56 62 7 69 95 87 62 38 75
Batting & Pitching Ratings
Event Season CN PW LH RH BE BR BU PP ST CT LH RH VE GB P1 P2 P3 P4 P5
Current - 81 55 82 74 60 39 59 65 21 11 11 15 7 23 33 0 0 0 0
Projected - 95 63 97 86 61 42 64 68 21 16 21 22 11 24 43 0 0 0 0
Spring Training 16 70 53 71 63 55 34 50 62 20 11 11 15 7 23 32 0 0 0 0
Spring Training 17 77 55 78 70 58 39 56 64 21 11 11 15 7 23 33 0 0 0 0
Opening Day 17 79 55 80 72 59 39 57 65 21 11 11 15 7 23 33 0 0 0 0
RegularSeason 17 80 55 81 73 59 39 58 65 21 11 11 15 7 23 33 0 0 0 0
RegularSeason 17 81 55 82 74 60 39 59 65 21 11 11 15 7 23 33 0 0 0 0

Rogers Carmona 21yo RF
General & Fielding Ratings
Event Season Height Weight OV RA GL AS AA PC DU HE SP PA TP MK
Current - 5-10 223 81 67 38 69 50 6 80 92 96 66 52 93
Projected - 6-0 229 96 67 48 69 61 6 93 100 96 76 52 93
Spring Training 15 5-10 219 63 60 34 63 42 4 65 91 96 55 52 88
Spring Training 16 5-10 220 71 65 35 67 43 5 74 92 96 62 52 91
Spring Training 17 5-10 223 79 67 37 69 48 5 80 92 96 66 52 93
Opening Day 17 5-10 223 80 67 38 69 49 6 80 92 96 66 52 93
RegularSeason 17 5-10 223 81 67 38 69 49 6 80 92 96 66 52 93
RegularSeason 17 5-10 223 81 67 38 69 50 6 80 92 96 66 52 93
Batting & Pitching Ratings
Event Season CN PW LH RH BE BR BU PP ST CT LH RH VE GB P1 P2 P3 P4 P5
Current - 58 84 69 75 83 76 0 42 21 0 6 5 22 15 59 0 0 0 0
Projected - 66 97 81 91 97 82 0 41 23 5 16 5 25 25 77 0 0 0 0
Spring Training 15 41 74 50 56 69 58 0 41 19 0 6 5 19 15 56 0 0 0 0
Spring Training 16 47 80 56 62 74 64 0 41 20 0 6 5 21 15 57 0 0 0 0
Spring Training 17 54 84 65 71 80 73 0 42 21 0 6 5 22 15 58 0 0 0 0
Opening Day 17 56 84 67 73 81 74 0 42 21 0 6 5 22 15 59 0 0 0 0
RegularSeason 17 57 84 68 74 82 75 0 42 21 0 6 5 22 15 59 0 0 0 0
RegularSeason 17 58 84 69 75 83 76 0 42 21 0 6 5 22 15 59 0 0 0 0

 FOR

Lou Ingram 22yo SP

General & Fielding Ratings
Event Season Height Weight OV RA GL AS AA PC DU HE SP PA TP MK
Current - 6-2 212 77 17 12 30 49 11 24 99 30 28 39 72
Projected - 6-2 218 84 17 13 30 76 13 25 99 30 35 33 72
Spring Training 14 6-2 210 57 15 10 27 43 10 22 95 30 24 39 68
Spring Training 15 6-2 210 66 16 11 29 45 10 23 97 30 26 39 70
Spring Training 16 6-2 211 71 17 12 30 47 11 24 98 30 27 39 71
Spring Training 17 6-2 212 75 17 12 30 48 11 24 99 30 28 39 72
Opening Day 17 6-2 212 76 17 12 30 49 11 24 99 30 28 39 72
RegularSeason 17 6-2 212 76 17 12 30 49 11 24 99 30 28 39 72
Promotion 17 6-2 212 77 17 12 30 49 11 24 99 30 28 39 72
Batting & Pitching Ratings
Event Season CN PW LH RH BE BR BU PP ST CT LH RH VE GB P1 P2 P3 P4 P5
Current - 21 9 11 22 21 17 63 65 73 78 82 84 41 56 83 64 63 62 46
Projected - 24 14 16 25 21 17 66 65 73 85 94 92 46 57 92 64 63 66 46
Spring Training 14 15 8 8 15 20 13 44 62 64 55 58 58 35 50 74 58 44 43 33
Spring Training 15 17 9 9 17 21 14 50 62 68 64 68 69 38 53 79 61 50 49 38
Spring Training 16 20 9 10 20 21 17 56 63 71 70 74 76 40 55 82 62 56 55 43
Spring Training 17 21 9 11 22 21 17 61 65 73 75 79 81 41 56 83 62 61 60 46
Opening Day 17 21 9 11 22 21 17 62 65 73 76 80 82 41 56 83 63 62 61 46
RegularSeason 17 21 9 11 22 21 17 62 65 73 77 81 83 41 56 83 63 63 61 46
Promotion 17 21 9 11 22 21 17 63 65 73 78 82 84 41 56 83 64 63 62 46

AND

Juan Lopez 20yo SP
General & Fielding Ratings
Event Season Height Weight OV RA GL AS AA PC DU HE SP PA TP MK
Current - 6-1 209 75 69 12 17 54 21 26 92 49 72 46 80
Projected - 6-1 225 86 75 12 17 75 27 28 100 49 86 42 88
Spring Training 16 6-1 207 67 66 12 17 50 19 25 88 49 65 45 78
Spring Training 17 6-1 209 72 69 12 17 52 20 26 92 49 72 46 80
Opening Day 17 6-1 209 73 69 12 17 54 21 26 92 49 72 46 80
RegularSeason 17 6-1 209 74 69 12 17 54 21 26 92 49 72 46 80
RegularSeason 17 6-1 209 75 69 12 17 54 21 26 92 49 72 46 80
Batting & Pitching Ratings
Event Season CN PW LH RH BE BR BU PP ST CT LH RH VE GB P1 P2 P3 P4 P5
Current - 24 7 21 30 18 21 71 59 85 80 66 64 37 80 84 74 51 47 0
Projected - 26 8 21 30 23 25 86 69 89 97 79 73 38 79 91 85 51 53 0
Spring Training 16 21 7 18 26 16 17 63 56 79 71 58 56 36 75 78 69 43 40 0
Spring Training 17 23 7 21 29 18 19 68 58 85 77 63 61 37 79 82 73 48 44 0
Opening Day 17 23 7 21 29 18 20 69 59 85 78 64 62 37 79 83 73 49 45 0
RegularSeason 17 23 7 21 30 18 20 70 59 85 79 65 63 37 79 83 74 50 46 0
RegularSeason 17 24 7 21 30 18 21 71 59 85 80 66 64 37 80 84 74 51 47 0

2/4/2012 1:21 PM
caesari
Posts: 4817 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 57 144 14
Prospect
It depends. Do you need SP more than position players?  I'd assume yes, and so I'd say try to get another guy, maybe LR sort of dude/spot starter. The guys you are trading away are studs, especially Carmona, and Lopez may be half-a-notch lower than what you deserve in a 2-fer-2 deal. 
2/4/2012 1:34 PM
dodgersgale
Posts: 50 (0)
Hall of Famer
103
Prospect
If you are desperate for pitching, then yes. But you have pretty decent position players and I personally wouldn't want to trade players that can hit and have such excellent durability and health numbers. One thing to look at is the money side of things. How many ML years? Options? When will they hit arbitration (years 3-5). ect. And when they do hit FA how much to keep them around? Those kinds of pitchers usually leave in FA imo. Or ask for 8-9 mil.
2/4/2012 4:52 PM
orrdc
Posts: 146 (0)
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101 41
Prospect
We also can't see if they are lefties, switch hitters ect and major league experience, current salary
2/4/2012 5:38 PM
topoftheworl
Posts: 547 (0)
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1 8 269
Prospect
I would not do the trade although its not because it isn't a fair trade.  Its fair, but you are trading great for very good.  All things equal take the pitcher, but they are not quite equal here.
2/5/2012 2:51 AM
crickett13
Posts: 2396 (0)
Hall of Famer
398 74 25 145
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  Depends on a lot of factors the most important ones is what other players you have at RF and 2B in your system and what is your team philosiphy? I value pitching and defense over hitting on some of my teams and Hitting over the other 2 on other teams.

  Both position players have below average gloves for their listed position and Ingram could already pitch for any ML team that wants a guy who will produce a WHIP of around 1.25 for 200 IP. Lopez has 2 more years of growth and will produce a WHIP of about 1.30 to 1.35 once he is done growing. I would do it.

  There is nothing unfair about the trade but nobody but you can say if it is what you want for your team. I would do it because I think good SP is harder to come by than hitters who are slightly below average in the field for their listed positions.
2/5/2012 9:46 AM
gjello10
Posts: 164 (0)
All Star
6 26
Prospect
There are indeed a lot of factors to consider.

I would probably ask for more only because I think you could get more. Lopez is the worst player in this trade. Carmona may end up being the best, but SPs have special value and I feel like Ingram is the most desirable player in the deal. I wouldn't hate doing the deal as is. But I bet you could get, say, a Catching prospect who could be a marginal starter or high-plus backup and it wouldn't make the other guy walk away from the deal. So if you can get more, get more.
2/5/2012 10:30 AM
moethedog
Posts: 846 (0)
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37 63
Prospect
Carmona is a beast.  If he gets to projections, he'll be a .305-.405-.600 type of player.  He be a fine LF and play everyday.  Or just make him a 1B....take your pick.  He's as good with the bat as it gets.  Guerrero may be a 2B and hit .310-.360-.440 type of guy.

Those are two great guys to build a long-term offense around.

Ingram is a Cy Young pitcher.   This is a powerful trade.

I think it is decently fair.  But I think that  I'm letting Carmona pack my offense for the next 10 years. He's that good.  Nobody is 97 Power, 91 vR, 97 Eye and 96  Speed, nobody.  Well, except Carmona.

Keep the bats, draft pitchers for the next three years, sign a good FA starter.
2/5/2012 3:58 PM
caesari
Posts: 4817 (0)
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1 57 144 14
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Ballpark could also play a small factor, so which team are you talking about? If you are in a hitter's park or neutral park, keep your guys. Extreme pitchers, I'd make the deal.
2/5/2012 4:49 PM
trobone
Posts: 615 (0)
Hall of Famer
73 12 10
Rookie
carmona is babe ruth in his prime is looks like.

if you want to trade him for cc sabathia that's your decision
2/6/2012 3:20 AM
frankum
Posts: 235 (0)
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17 5 129 60
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If babe ruth could have stolen 50 bases....

that's a 40/40 maybe even a 50/50 guy....id never trade him.     
2/6/2012 8:55 AM
gjello10
Posts: 164 (0)
All Star
6 26
Prospect
Posted by trobone on 2/6/2012 3:20:00 AM (view original):
carmona is babe ruth in his prime is looks like.

if you want to trade him for cc sabathia that's your decision
Look at the currents, though. I don't think Carmona really gets to 90+ in those categories.
2/6/2012 9:27 AM
crickett13
Posts: 2396 (0)
Hall of Famer
398 74 25 145
Prospect
Posted by gjello10 on 2/6/2012 9:27:00 AM (view original):
Posted by trobone on 2/6/2012 3:20:00 AM (view original):
carmona is babe ruth in his prime is looks like.

if you want to trade him for cc sabathia that's your decision
Look at the currents, though. I don't think Carmona really gets to 90+ in those categories.
and we have a winner. Seriously you guys are leading him to belive that Carmona will reach his projections and he wont. Can he get someone else. Well heck there is not any harm in asking. Is it fair to ask for a great player for Ingram. Heck yeah he is going to put up a lifetime WHIP of about 1.22 over a 10-12 year period. Ingram is already a great pitcher, Carmona is already a great hitter. So we are back to what does your teams system a) value more and B) need more.

2/6/2012 10:20 AM (edited)
maxdeardorff
Posts: 265 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 26 141
Prospect
I would do this trade any day of the week.  Those two pitchers are good enough to win you a WS on their own.  Your two position players are pretty good, too.  But I think the jewel of your farm system, Carmona, is just about just about to max out.  In the end, I'll think he'll be very good, but not HOF quality.  More like 30 HR, 100 RBI, 30 SB.  Guerrero's quite good, too, but with his 69 Dur he'll only be good for about 480 at-bats, and you'll have another roster spot to fill.  Seriously, both of those pitchers are SP1 quality.  Take this deal before the guy reconsiders.
2/6/2012 10:16 AM
moethedog
Posts: 846 (0)
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37 63
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Carmona is a 21 year old guy with two full seasons and part of another in the game.  He has a Makeup of 93.  What makes you think he's maxed out?

I think he picks up 8 pts across the batting board, at least, in the next two seasons.  Might even be12+.  Hire the best batting coach you can find with him.

Can you show me an example of a 21 year old, 93 Makeup guy, with 2.5 years who stops growing substantially?

2/6/2012 10:45 AM
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