Posted by mullycj on 4/27/2020 11:38:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 4/27/2020 9:56:00 AM (view original):
You know, I don't want to argue any further but I will close with this. (I am aware this is a ****** way to try to get the last word in.) Is there away to achieve the results you want without creating an atmosphere of toxicity and negativity?

If you don't think these types of threads have any negative effect on the user base then I guess it doesn't matter. I am merely suggesting than these types of threads ultimately do more harm than good.

I am glad the double resource loophole got closed, I do think AB shouldn't be allowed to have teams 20 miles from each other. Starting threads calling people cheaters based on limited, one sided information, isn't the optimal way to achieve these results, IMO. (yes, i know he started the thread, I do find the irony in that.....)

If I am wrong, sobeit, it's just an alternate view point.

I would like to make one suggestion. After posting in here telling <insert username here> how wrong, dumb, cheaty they are, post in some other thread with helpful advice or similar positive interaction.

Or not, most of you are peckerheads anyway. I kid, I kid.....only some of you are peckerheads.

If I am a new user and see this I think there is a community that doesn't tolerate others taking advantage of the rules and will call them out on it.

Id rather play an online game with those users than ones that allow new users to be exploited by the vets using multiple IDs to help in recruiting.

MY MAN!!!! Amen brother! This shouldn't run anybody off. This should help new users understand that we all care!

I also agree with one point TJ said regarding if we're gonna make a poo poo on you thread, that we need positive threads to counteract that. But.... we do. There's thousands of them here! Not all threads are bad. In fact most aren't. What happens is, is feelings get involved and they drag on and on from people being defensive or trying to explain their point, whether it's relavant or not. If someone were to point out something I did wrong within the rules, my response would be..... "oh ****, my bad. I screwed up". The end. But when animals get cornered, sometimes they lash out

Posted by ab90 on 4/27/2020 11:59:00 AM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 4/27/2020 11:38:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 4/27/2020 9:56:00 AM (view original):
You know, I don't want to argue any further but I will close with this. (I am aware this is a ****** way to try to get the last word in.) Is there away to achieve the results you want without creating an atmosphere of toxicity and negativity?

If you don't think these types of threads have any negative effect on the user base then I guess it doesn't matter. I am merely suggesting than these types of threads ultimately do more harm than good.

I am glad the double resource loophole got closed, I do think AB shouldn't be allowed to have teams 20 miles from each other. Starting threads calling people cheaters based on limited, one sided information, isn't the optimal way to achieve these results, IMO. (yes, i know he started the thread, I do find the irony in that.....)

If I am wrong, sobeit, it's just an alternate view point.

I would like to make one suggestion. After posting in here telling <insert username here> how wrong, dumb, cheaty they are, post in some other thread with helpful advice or similar positive interaction.

Or not, most of you are peckerheads anyway. I kid, I kid.....only some of you are peckerheads.

If I am a new user and see this I think there is a community that doesn't tolerate others taking advantage of the rules and will call them out on it.

Id rather play an online game with those users than ones that allow new users to be exploited by the vets using multiple IDs to help in recruiting.

That any of you state that I’m using my accounts to cheat in recruiting is, a, the very definition of defamation (and, this isn’t ‘nam, Smokey. We have rules here), and, b, something admin has looked into multiple times at your womanish, hysterical urgings. Maybe, just maybe, having more information than you all, and seeing as he can access all of our accounts and see what we’ve done whereas your heads are so far up your own ******** you can barely access your own..........well, you complete the sentence however your ******* cerebrum seems fit.

You seem a bit unhinged here. You might need to relax a little bit.

Posted by mullycj on 4/27/2020 11:38:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 4/27/2020 9:56:00 AM (view original):
You know, I don't want to argue any further but I will close with this. (I am aware this is a ****** way to try to get the last word in.) Is there away to achieve the results you want without creating an atmosphere of toxicity and negativity?

If you don't think these types of threads have any negative effect on the user base then I guess it doesn't matter. I am merely suggesting than these types of threads ultimately do more harm than good.

I am glad the double resource loophole got closed, I do think AB shouldn't be allowed to have teams 20 miles from each other. Starting threads calling people cheaters based on limited, one sided information, isn't the optimal way to achieve these results, IMO. (yes, i know he started the thread, I do find the irony in that.....)

If I am wrong, sobeit, it's just an alternate view point.

I would like to make one suggestion. After posting in here telling <insert username here> how wrong, dumb, cheaty they are, post in some other thread with helpful advice or similar positive interaction.

Or not, most of you are peckerheads anyway. I kid, I kid.....only some of you are peckerheads.

If I am a new user and see this I think there is a community that doesn't tolerate others taking advantage of the rules and will call them out on it.

Id rather play an online game with those users than ones that allow new users to be exploited by the vets using multiple IDs to help in recruiting.

Totally agree Mully.

Also, maybe it's a deterrent for future people who may choose to intentionally break the rules. Maybe.

"That any of you state that I’m using my accounts to cheat in recruiting is, a, the very definition of defamation (and, this isn’t ‘nam, Smokey. We have rules here), and, b, something admin has looked into multiple times at your womanish, hysterical urgings. Maybe, just maybe, having more information than you all, and seeing as he can access all of our accounts and see what we’ve done whereas your heads are so far up your own ******** you can barely access your own..........well, you complete the sentence however your ******* cerebrum seems fit."

I never really thought AB was a cheater.........until HE started this thread.....
With every additional post you either 1) start to sound like an *** or 2) start to sound like someone who says he is innocent because he hasnt been caught red-handed.

I am sure (since you are the best player on this ENTIRE site) you know that you can have team A level 4 scout 100 players for team B, then have team B level 4 scout the 3 players from Team A that you really liked and then recruit those for Team B and CLAIM you arent cheating. Meanwhile Team B now has more scouting recources to use for the rest of the country. Its really not hard to understand , expecially for the BEST player on the entire site, to see how you can have an advantage with multiple teams in a world. Maybe THATS why you are the best player on the entire site..............

BTW is the 1000 thing a RULE or a GUIDLINE?

Found in the Fair Play Guidelines, it identifies as a rule: https://www.whatifsports.com/account/FairPlayGuidelines/

More than one team in the same world

One person (regardless of account used) cannot control more than one team in the same world within the same conference or within 1,000 miles or less of one another. Violation of this rule will lead to a forced relocation or removal from one of the teams.

Cheating

All owners must play by the rules and requirements set forth by each game on our site.

BTW …..then it doesn't matter what you are using them for.. you are cheating.

Yeah it's definitely a rule, pretty clear.

I think just a couple months ago there was a debate on whether or not sharing information from one of your teams to another one of your teams wasn't actually cheating so I'll clear it up.

If you have two teams in 1 world within 1000 miles, you are breaking the rules. If you then share information from one team to the other, you are cheating.

It's clear ab broke the rule several times but there really is no way of knowing if he shared information between teams. Now, I think it's very difficult to NOT share information between your teams unless you are super careful - which is probably why they have the rule in the first place.

He was on the same recruit with two accounts. I guess that can fall in to either position. He’s either oblivious to who he is recruiting with each team; or there is definite collusion going on.

Where in this book will I find the rules and procedures for a Code Red?

Where in this book will I find the location of the Mess Hall?

I think TJ is probably right that this intense focus on policing each other is a turnoff for new players, in multiple ways. I also think it’s generally good that the community is concerned about fair play, even though I think a lot of folks clearly struggle to discern between breaking the letter of the law vs breaking the spirit of the law.

It’d be great if there was a structural barrier to prevent intentional rule-breaking, like linking IP address or credit cards, and not allowing them to occupy teams within 1000 miles. But we shouldn’t delude ourselves into thinking folks determined to cheat won’t get around it. The ones intending to cheat are already going out of their way to coordinate the collusion, and to keep it under wraps. And arguably the biggest cheathole for multiple accounts involves scouting D1 internationals, which isn’t affected by the 1000 mile rule at all.

From a game design standpoint, the big priority in this area should be reducing the potential benefit of collusion/cheating, which is one primary reason I’ve always favored a resource-less approach to scouting and recruiting.

C'mon I know you want to say it shoe...……….

comm _ _ _ _ _

Posted by mullycj on 4/27/2020 2:11:00 PM (view original):
C'mon I know you want to say it shoe...……….

comm _ _ _ _ _

I said community, it’s right up there in the first paragraph. ;)

well played......

Posted by beachhouse on 4/27/2020 1:59:00 PM (view original):
He was on the same recruit with two accounts. I guess that can fall in to either position. He’s either oblivious to who he is recruiting with each team; or there is definite collusion going on.

not defending doing it but - at one point i recruited the same guy with 2 teams. i had 1 d1 tark team and a friendly coach not super close but not super far away (500 miles or so) asked me to coach for him for like a week while he was on vacation. this was many years ago, before there was any hubbub about any of this crap, and these sort of friendly exchanges were encouraged, so i took him up on it.

anyway, tark recruiting was pretty insane for me at the time, with a d2 team i took really seriously and a d3 team as well, and 3 hour recruiting cycles. i ended up going for the same player on both d1 schools, a guy who happened to be about 300 miles from each somewhere in the middle of the two. i was going through my recruits like, back then you checked after cycle 1 and you were alone a lot and if so the guy was basically yours, and its like - sweet this guy is set - sweet that guy is set - ok this guy's not. who is it. wait, aren't i coaching that school right now? !@#$

it was kind of interesting... after that i was never a fan of having 2 schools at the same level (i never was before that either, but i felt it was a lesser evil than limiting someone to 1 2/day team, this was back with 1 2/day world, which was the case for 5 years or so, perhaps more). too big of a chance of accidental weirdness that is tricky to resolve ethically. i can attest it can definitely happen by accident, though.

i personally assume ab, who doesn't really care about recruiting because he never sticks around to coach said recruits, is not paying much attention and it was a fluke. i totally get that this is why we aren't supposed to have 2 teams within 1000 miles (although i always thought limiting by level was more meaningful, it should probably be both i guess). but i'm just saying - i wouldn't jump from 'someone showed up on the same guy twice' to 'it was intentional', like beachhouse said - it could go either way. i dont know the names of half the players on our teams... seems you have to really be paying attention if you have two overlapping recruiting regions, to have no chance of accidentally going for the same guy (and intentionally making sure you don't has its own ethical issues).

I play HD under two separate accounts (10 teams on one; three on another), so I watch all of this with a certain amount of bemusement. I'd like to point out a few things:

• ab90 uses two accounts that are named such that they are obviously tied to the same individual. If he really wanted to cheat, he could stealthly create a separate non-homonymic account and it would be way more difficult to tie the two together.
• The 1,000-mile rule obviously needs to be followed, as it is clearly stated in the fair play guidelines. But I could see inadvertently getting a team that is 984 miles from another because your distance source relies upon driving mileage rather than, "as the crow flies". I deal with this by simply making sure my teams are way further apart than 1,000 miles. I will say that west coast teams recruiting D1 players are often going to regularly use a scouting service out to Montana/Wyoming/Colorado/New Mexico. If your second team in a world is only 1,000 miles away from your west coast team, there is likely to be an overlap in scouting, and that can lead to cheating allegations.
• ab90 did consult with admin about this on likely more than one occasion, and he has received the OK to move forward. Admin is certainly able to review recruiting actions and determine if there have been violations of fair play guidelines. That ab90 still has his teams tells me there have been no such violations.
• gil asks why it's easier in 3.0 to cheat than in 2.0 - my guess is that in 3.0, the best DIII schools all seem to be recruiting D1 players. This wasn't nearly as easy in 2.0. Obviously DII teams were able to use a pulldown strategy, but I cannot recall DIII teams pulling down ranked D1 players as I see today in 3.0.