**READ** Home Field Advantage! Topic

tecwrg
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antoncantbeserious
7/22/2009 11:38 AM
iain
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7/22/2009 11:43 AM
antonsirius
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You're the one who seems to have the issue with it, not me. I'm fine with teams earning a home field advantage in the playoffs.
7/22/2009 11:54 AM
iain
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Quote: Originally Posted By antonsirius on 7/22/2009You're the one who seems to have the issue with it, not me. I'm fine with teams earning a home field advantage in the playoffs
My definition of HFA: more games in your home park, with whatever inherent advantage your team construction gives you.

Your definition of HFA: more games in your home park, with whatever inherent advantage your team construction gives you, as well as an artificial 10% greater likelihood of winning programmed into the SIM.

If you can't see the difference (hint: it's in italics), and why that's ridiculous, well... I think we're done here.
7/22/2009 11:57 AM
tecwrg
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7/22/2009 12:04 PM
antonsirius
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7/22/2009 12:12 PM
antonsirius
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Also, please quote the post where I push for "a 10% greater likelihood of winning programmed into the SIM." Thanks bunches.
7/22/2009 12:15 PM
tecwrg
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And how does that 10% manifest itself in the game engine? A random infield pop-up by the home team becomes a three-run homer? A late inning bases-loaded double by the visiting team becomes a 6-4-3 inning ending groundout?

How exactly does one program an unquantifiable concept as one (or more) discrete events in a game simulation engine?
7/22/2009 12:17 PM
schuyler101
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Quote: Originally posted by tecwrg on 7/22/2009And how does that 10% manifest itself in the game engine?  A random infield pop-up by the home team becomes a three-run homer?  A late inning bases-loaded double by the visiting team becomes a 6-4-3 inning ending groundout?How exactly does one program an unquantifiable concept as one (or more) discrete events in a game simulation engine?

They do it in HD and GD, there are a number of ways one could go about doing it
7/22/2009 12:31 PM
schuyler101
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7/22/2009 12:35 PM
98greenc5
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do GD or HD allow you to play choose your stadium/court? ... or let you choose other variables that might otherwise explain any HFA that might exist
7/22/2009 12:37 PM
tecwrg
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Quote: Originally Posted By schuyler101 on 7/22/2009
Quote: Originally posted by tecwrg on 7/22/2009 And how does that 10% manifest itself in the game engine? A random infield pop-up by the home team becomes a three-run homer? A late inning bases-loaded double by the visiting team becomes a 6-4-3 inning ending groundout
How exactly does one program an unquantifiable concept as one (or more) discrete events in a game simulation engine
They do it in HD and GD, there are a number of ways one could go about doing it
Such as?
7/22/2009 12:40 PM
jvford
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Quote: Originally Posted By tecwrg on 7/22/2009
And how does that 10% manifest itself in the game engine? A random infield pop-up by the home team becomes a three-run homer? A late inning bases-loaded double by the visiting team becomes a 6-4-3 inning ending groundout?

How exactly does one program an unquantifiable concept as one (or more) discrete events in a game simulation engine?

Probably with a miniscule modifier in favor of the home team to every single game event.

Not that I'm in favor of it.
7/22/2009 12:44 PM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By tecwrg on 7/22/2009
And how does that 10% manifest itself in the game engine? A random infield pop-up by the home team becomes a three-run homer? A late inning bases-loaded double by the visiting team becomes a 6-4-3 inning ending groundout?

How exactly does one program an unquantifiable concept as one (or more) discrete events in a game simulation engine?



Small increase in each player's individual abilities. Not sure this would get the desired result. In fact, I'm sure it wouldn't as no two teams are the same.
7/22/2009 1:11 PM
schuyler101
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Quote: Originally posted by MikeT23 on 7/21/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By schuyler101 on 7/21/2009
I don't think owner decision making is what causes there to be a negligible home/road winning % split in HBD. I'd be surprised if there were many owners who have custom tailored their team to the point where, year in year out, they win 10% more at home. I welcome examples of owners who have managed to average 10% more wins at home over the course of 3 or 4 seasons (a reasonable time period). It takes a number of seasons to custom tailor your team like that but since we have so many vets around here and a number of worlds going on 10+ seasons I would think if there were an example of this someone could provide it.In seasons 5-8 of Joey Belle, I won 25 more games at home than on the road.   397 wins, 211 at home, more at home every season in Dover.   Not quite 10% but I think it proves it can be done.



It can be done but can it be done consistently?

Or are you just cherry picking your best example?

Let's look at other worlds you are currently in and have been in for more than 5 seasons. Of all people I would think you would know better than most how to custom tailor your team to your park. So I wondered if you could consistently do this, given the time.

Here is what I found.

I took the last 4 seasons of Cooperstown (Charleston Charge), the last 2 of Happy Jack (Las Vegas Pit Boss) and the last 5 from Moonlight Graham (Rochester Rage). All teams you had for at least 6 seasons prior and had plenty of time to custom tailor them to your parks.

I only used completed seasons and looked at all of those completed after having spent 6 seasons with the franchise. (NOTE - MikeT, if you took over any of these teams mid season let me know and I can change the parameters, if 6 season is not enough time to tailor a team to your park, or too much, I welcome input)

I set up the parameters of what I wanted to look at before I looked at the records.

Cooperstown (Charleston Charge)
Seasons 7 - 10
178 home wins
179 road wins
.6% more wins on the road

Happy Jack (Las Vegas Pit Bulls)
Seasons 10 - 11
90 home wins
93 road wins
3.3% more wins on the road

Moonlight Graham (Rochester Rage)
Seasons 7 - 11
218 home wins
227 road wins
4.1% more wins on the road


Totals
486 home wins
499 road wins

including your Joey Belle stats it comes to
697 home wins
687 road wins
1.4% more wins at home

Conclusion - A really good sample size proves you come FAR short of the 4 to 10% that is the average in RL MLB for the last 20 years.

You definitely cherry picked the convenient example. As a very experienced owner you should be able to tailor your teams to their home parks. You clearly have not been able to do it with any team except for possibly your Joey Belle team.

Either the affect of tailoring your team to it's home park has been drastically overstated, or you're just inept at doing it. I don't think you're inept at all, you are a solid owner and a consistent winner, and I don't think you're winning in spite of not being able to take advantage of this facet of HBD. I simply think the advantage gained by tailoring your team to it's home park is at the most 1 or 2% more wins at home.

It seems this isn't a case of HBD owners simply making diff't decisions regarding personnel and that causing us to get diff't results from RL MLB. There really is something that happens in RL MLB that isn't accounted for in the HBD sim.

I would like us to account for it.



7/22/2009 1:14 PM
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