The Mad Scientist Top 25 Ranking Debate Topic

Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 12/21/2009
You're playing and beating a more talented team....THE RATINGS SAY SO....there's no guesswork here, this isn't real life....the ratings are DIRECTLY REPRESENTATIVE of how good teams are here. Wins and losses are largely based on SOS, thus its easier to cupcake a schedule and win a bunch of games as opposed to a 750 maybe taking on a tougher schedule.

Record and RPI have nothing to do with it, if you don't see how beating a 750 is more impressive than beating a 700, then I can't help you.



So I guess coaches don't matter?
12/21/2009 4:29 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 12/21/2009
LOL I love it dalt!

That said colonels you should know that judging anything based on overall is very misleading at best.

You've never seen a ranking that has done it....overall rating is a better gauge of team talent/quality than wins-losses, RPI, SOS, or any other thing that you can come up with. Sure its not perfect, but if you have overall ratings, why not use them? THEY'RE CONCRETE for crying outside.
12/21/2009 4:29 PM
dalter, I understand that the real life selection committee does not use margin of victory. But in HD, I don't necessarily think we should be trying to mimic exactly what the real life committee does. I think the primary objective in HD should be to try to get the best teams into the tournament and seeded properly.

And that gets into a philosophical argument about what type of rating system is best. There's no doubt in my mind that a margin of victory system will most accurately tell you who the best teams are. A non margin of victory system is better for telling you what teams have accomplished the most, but not necessarily who's better. They are two very different things.

My concern is that if you use a non margin of victory system, you're going to end up with scenarios like you have now, where worse-seeded teams are actually better than the higher-seeded teams they draw in the 1st round.

As to your concern about margin of victory systems favoring uptempo teams over slowdown teams, there are ways to compensate for that. You can base your system on % of points scored instead of point differential, or even if you do use point differential, you can set it up to have diminishing returns as the margin of victory gets higher.
12/21/2009 4:29 PM
This post could not be converted. To view the original post's thread, click here.
12/21/2009 4:30 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By vandydave on 12/21/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 12/21/2009

You're playing and beating a more talented team....THE RATINGS SAY SO....there's no guesswork here, this isn't real life....the ratings are DIRECTLY REPRESENTATIVE of how good teams are here. Wins and losses are largely based on SOS, thus its easier to cupcake a schedule and win a bunch of games as opposed to a 750 maybe taking on a tougher schedule.

Record and RPI have nothing to do with it, if you don't see how beating a 750 is more impressive than beating a 700, then I can't help you.




if you consider a 750 team with guys with jacked up stamina and durability better than a 700 team with fantastic ratings in the core areas by position then you indeed are blinded by the numbers.
Then they need to adjust the numbers to create a more formidable, structural overall rating, not just the fact that the other team can outlast the other team better. If they can perfect that kind of thing, its gold.
12/21/2009 4:31 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 12/21/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 12/21/2009

LOL I love it dalt!

That said colonels you should know that judging anything based on overall is very misleading at best.

You've never seen a ranking that has done it....overall rating is a better gauge of team talent/quality than wins-losses, RPI, SOS, or any other thing that you can come up with. Sure its not perfect, but if you have overall ratings, why not use them? THEY'RE CONCRETE for crying outside.
Once again, by saying this you are saying that coaching does not matter what-so-ever and that is where you are wrong. Also you are missing my main point, one that VD also made - You are using DUR/WE and STA to judge how good a team is? Again, overalls are very misleading at best.
12/21/2009 4:31 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 12/21/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 12/21/2009

You're playing and beating a more talented team....THE RATINGS SAY SO....there's no guesswork here, this isn't real life....the ratings are DIRECTLY REPRESENTATIVE of how good teams are here. Wins and losses are largely based on SOS, thus its easier to cupcake a schedule and win a bunch of games as opposed to a 750 maybe taking on a tougher schedule.

Record and RPI have nothing to do with it, if you don't see how beating a 750 is more impressive than beating a 700, then I can't help you.




So I guess coaches don't matter?
Nope, if you play a **** coach with a great team, then thems the breaks...you still beat a great team regardless....give me a win over a 750 over a win over a 700 anyday....
12/21/2009 4:32 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 12/21/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By vandydave on 12/21/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 12/21/2009

You're playing and beating a more talented team....THE RATINGS SAY SO....there's no guesswork here, this isn't real life....the ratings are DIRECTLY REPRESENTATIVE of how good teams are here. Wins and losses are largely based on SOS, thus its easier to cupcake a schedule and win a bunch of games as opposed to a 750 maybe taking on a tougher schedule.

Record and RPI have nothing to do with it, if you don't see how beating a 750 is more impressive than beating a 700, then I can't help you.




if you consider a 750 team with guys with jacked up stamina and durability better than a 700 team with fantastic ratings in the core areas by position then you indeed are blinded by the numbers.
Then they need to adjust the numbers to create a more formidable, structural overall rating, not just the fact that the other team can outlast the other team better. If they can perfect that kind of thing, its gold
Did you really not know that 'Overall' is just simple addition of all the players ratings?
12/21/2009 4:32 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By arssanguinus on 12/21/2009
Regardless of the reason a team keeps losing, even if its the coach that makes them lose, why should you be rewarded for beating a team NOT living up to its potential?
Because you're basing your rankings off of concrete objective numbers that are directly apart of the game, not some mumbo jumbo combo of wins, SOS, and whatever else is in question. They need to shore up the overall ranking, maybe eliminate stamina and durability from it, but if they do its a damned good reference by which to rank teams.
12/21/2009 4:34 PM
This post could not be converted. To view the original post's thread, click here.
12/21/2009 4:34 PM
Colonels19, do you only consider the overall or do you adjust for game day lineups? A couple of injuries can drop that 750 team to 690 real quick. Is it fair to use a win over a decimated 750 team the same as a win over a healthy 750 team?
12/21/2009 4:34 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 12/21/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 12/21/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 12/21/2009

LOL I love it dalt!

That said colonels you should know that judging anything based on overall is very misleading at best.

You've never seen a ranking that has done it....overall rating is a better gauge of team talent/quality than wins-losses, RPI, SOS, or any other thing that you can come up with. Sure its not perfect, but if you have overall ratings, why not use them? THEY'RE CONCRETE for crying outside.
Once again, by saying this you are saying that coaching does not matter what-so-ever and that is where you are wrong. Also you are missing my main point, one that VD also made - You are using DUR/WE and STA to judge how good a team is? Again, overalls are very misleading at best.
Simple, have the overall rating be an average of all categories but those that you mentioned, then you have a damned good starting point.
12/21/2009 4:35 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 12/21/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By vandydave on 12/21/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 12/21/2009

You're playing and beating a more talented team....THE RATINGS SAY SO....there's no guesswork here, this isn't real life....the ratings are DIRECTLY REPRESENTATIVE of how good teams are here. Wins and losses are largely based on SOS, thus its easier to cupcake a schedule and win a bunch of games as opposed to a 750 maybe taking on a tougher schedule.

Record and RPI have nothing to do with it, if you don't see how beating a 750 is more impressive than beating a 700, then I can't help you.




if you consider a 750 team with guys with jacked up stamina and durability better than a 700 team with fantastic ratings in the core areas by position then you indeed are blinded by the numbers.
Then they need to adjust the numbers to create a more formidable, structural overall rating, not just the fact that the other team can outlast the other team better. If they can perfect that kind of thing, its gold
so overall ratings as they exist now are not indicators of success.

next.
12/21/2009 4:35 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 12/21/2009Did you really not know that 'Overall' is just simple addition of all the players ratings
I knew, its still the best representation of team talent out there, is it not?
12/21/2009 4:35 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By arssanguinus on 12/21/2009
That is sort of like taking a car race and saying "Well, that car is capable of going twenty miles an hour faster than the other one. It lost the race, but we should still rank it higher"
Suggesting how good or bad a coach is has no place in this argument and its extremely subjective....fact is, your talent is facing their talent, and the rankings should reflect such.
12/21/2009 4:37 PM
◂ Prev 1...10|11|12|13|14...75 Next ▸
The Mad Scientist Top 25 Ranking Debate Topic

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2026 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.