Quote: Originally Posted By dalter on 4/15/2010
The issue here is that you're quite bad at recognizing which outcomes are truly, inherently flawed, and which are not.

QFT
4/16/2010 10:45 AM
When everyone disagrees with you, at some point wouldn't you start to think "Maybe it's me?"
4/16/2010 10:47 AM
To be fair, a few people agreed with him(/her?).

I always tend to assume everybody on this site is a guy, but I'm sure there are some women so I don't want to jump to conclusions too quickly...
4/16/2010 10:50 AM
Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 4/16/2010
When everyone disagrees with you, at some point wouldn't you start to think "Maybe it's me?"

If everyone in the world disagreed with me, but I still had good reason to believe that I was/am right/justified, I wouldn't give in and admit that I was/am wrong.

Just because you're in the (vast) minority doesn't mean that you're incorrect or that you don't have good logic, theories, etc.
4/16/2010 11:00 AM
Quote: Originally Posted By dahsdebater on 4/16/2010
To be fair, a few people agreed with him(/her?).

I always tend to assume everybody on this site is a guy, but I'm sure there are some women so I don't want to jump to conclusions too quickly...

I am a "him", just wanted to clear that up. I was 19 when I re-signed up on WIS in May 2003 and I had somewhat of an obsession with the ABA then and always thought the Kentucky Colonels was a great team name, thus colonels19. Who knew the name would become infamous and legendary lofl.
4/16/2010 11:02 AM
Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 4/16/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 4/16/2010

When everyone disagrees with you, at some point wouldn't you start to think "Maybe it's me?"

If everyone in the world disagreed with me, but I still had good reason to believe that I was/am right/justified, I wouldn't give in and admit that I was/am wrong.

Just because you're in the (vast) minority doesn't mean that you're incorrect or that you don't have good logic, theories, etc.

This is true.

The problem is that you have repeatedly demonstrated poor judgment and a lack of understanding of HD, critical thinking skills and statistics/probability.

So when you couple that with the fact that people who know the game well and don't have those, um, challenges are telling you how wrong you are, that doesn't give your theory from above much chance for success.
4/16/2010 11:12 AM
Then please justify this 44 point swing again for me, because I seem to remember somewhere earlier in this thread where you were talking about how game 1 was where the bizarre stuff happened...but honestly, please run down for me why this result is acceptable again, as compared to what happened in the first game.
4/16/2010 11:21 AM
For you, colonels ... anything.

The story of the first game is told in the first half. The home team was extremely hot (66%) and the away team was extremely cold (29%). That resulted in a lopsided 39-17 halftime score. If these teams played 100 times you wouldn't expect a halftime score that lopsided very often, but this in itself is hardly crazy, unprecedented or something that should never happen.

In the second half that margin continued to widen, in large part because the away team's reserves played a lot more than normal, and on this team there is a monumental difference between the starters and backups (the starters were recruited by a human, the backups by a sim).

In the second game, the sim team was at home, so of course we know already that's a significant factor in the equation. Instead of one team being very hot and the other being very cold, there was a more normal result, with both teams shooting 41-44%. The sim team was able to play their starters for normal minutes, so that makes a real difference, too.

So I'd say that the biggest factor was simply a very hot first half for Lane paired with a very cold first half for Clark in the initial game. That led to Clark's really crappy reserves playing the majority of the 2nd half, widening the gap even further. Then factor in the home/road advantage.

Mistakes that the Lane coach made:

-Not running uptempo. As mentioned, there was a huge disparity between the sim team's starters and reserves. The sim team also ran a press. So the Lane coach missed a great opportunity to make sure that the sim's reserves would be on the court as much as possible.

-Running a +1 defense. Clark-Atl takes a decent amount of 3p's (as most sims do), but they are simply an awful 3pt shooting team at 29% for the season (vs. a 245 sos). Their starting guards and sf have pe ratings of 54, 47 and 36. You practically want to beg that team to shoot more threes. I would've backed off a little and dared them to shoot more 3p's, probably a -1 or -2.

If he does these two things, he wins the second game, no question in my mind. And then this thread doesn't exist, and the world is a better place.

4/16/2010 12:22 PM
the loss may have been for the greater good if colonels gets the message here
4/16/2010 1:50 PM
I can't wait to hear the response for this!
4/16/2010 1:58 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By dalter on 4/16/2010

For you, colonels ... anything.

The story of the first game is told in the first half. The home team was extremely hot (66%) and the away team was extremely cold (29%). Nearing the outskirts of expectation here, is it not? That resulted in a lopsided 39-17 halftime score. If these teams played 100 times you wouldn't expect a halftime score that lopsided very often, but this in itself is hardly crazy, unprecedented or something that should never happen. Unprecedented and should never happen, certainly not...my initial comments I made in this thread are/were a bit off because I hadn't looked at the game(s) too closely...crazy and maybe/probably got screwed...I think the argument's there, especially when game 2 rolls around.

In the second half that margin continued to widen, in large part because the away team's reserves played a lot more than normal, and on this team there is a monumental difference between the starters and backups (the starters were recruited by a human, the backups by a sim).

In the second game, the sim team was at home Clark's HCA was worse than pitino's team's HCA...Clark was a C...Lane was a B...I would expect Pitino's team to play better at home than Clark's would/should at home...something you're not considering when you're just looking at the fact that Clark is at home., so of course we know already that's a significant factor in the equation. Instead of one team being very hot and the other being very cold, there was a more normal result, with both teams shooting 41-44%. The sim team was able to play their starters for normal minutes, so that makes a real difference, too. I'm going to have to look closer at the ratings, but you do realize that Lane has an OTR that's 70 higher than Clark? Why, when the game "normalizes" should Clark now get the edge, especially when they didn't make any adjustments, just because they're playing at home? Again they have an HCA of C...not impressive at all.

So I'd say that the biggest factor was simply a very hot first half for Lane paired with a very cold first half for Clark in the initial game. That led to Clark's really crappy reserves playing the majority of the 2nd half, widening the gap even further. Then factor in the home/road advantage.

Mistakes that the Lane coach made:

-Not running uptempo. As mentioned, there was a huge disparity between the sim team's starters and reserves. The sim team also ran a press. So the Lane coach missed a great opportunity to make sure that the sim's reserves would be on the court as much as possible.

-Running a +1 defense. Clark-Atl takes a decent amount of 3p's (as most sims do), but they are simply an awful 3pt shooting team at 29% for the season (vs. a 245 sos). Their starting guards and sf have pe ratings of 54, 47 and 36. You practically want to beg that team to shoot more threes. I would've backed off a little and dared them to shoot more 3p's, probably a -1 or -2.

If he does these two things, he wins the second game, no question in my mind. And then this thread doesn't exist, and the world is a better place. And again I would point out to you, why would you change ANYTHING when you won a game by 39 points, against a sim who you know isn't going to adjust strategy?



4/16/2010 11:48 PM
The first half of the first game isn't that odd. One team was hot, another was cold. It happens, particularly w. a small sample size of 20-30 shots. It's just not that odd or surprising, and if you think it is, it's further direct evidence that you just don't understand what a "crazy" result is or isn't.

And yeah, one team's HCA was a little better. So? That doesn't change the point one tiny bit, which is that when you go from playing at Lane to playing at Clark, that is obviously and irrefutably a swing toward's Clark's side. Period, end of story.

Also, I didn't say that Clark would have the edge in a more normal game. What I said was that both teams shooting in the 40's would be a more normal result than the first game with one team shooting 66 percent and the other 29.

If these two teams played 100 games on a neutral court, I would expect Lane to win more, definitely. But Lane losing one game at Clark by a few points when the Lane coach made a couple bad coaching mistakes is not a crazy result.
4/17/2010 1:19 AM
I imagine this is kind of like watching the Lincoln-Douglas debates.

That is, if Lincoln were dalter and Douglas were retarded.
4/17/2010 10:35 AM
"unprecedented"......says who? the same person that says "my initial comments...are/were a bit off". Ya think? Maybe his next comment should be "gee, I did some research after I argued for 8 pages and found out it wasn't as bad as I thought. Sorry gang. I will do research next time before I start dissin on all of you that have played this game so much longer than I. Maybe someday I will be able to be as knowledgeable as some of the rest of you if I stop acting like a member of Congress and just say NO to whatever the other side is doing/saying just to stand on my principals, be they right or wrong".

4/17/2010 11:20 AM
The swing still isn't completely justified...dalter has pretty much admitted that game 1 produced a rather unexpected result.
4/17/2010 12:43 PM
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