Diagnostics for Leadoff Hitters II Topic

MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By hartjh14 on 2/21/2008
Quote: Originally Posted By hartjh14 on 2/21/2008

If a team strikes out 14 times, there's a good chance the pitcher was locked in that day and it's unlikely that the team would have scored much. You'd have to look at runs scored at every strikeout level and chart it out to be able to even try to draw a conclusion, and I don't think it's really that important.


A pitcher can only be "locked" in if he's striking out batters at alarming rates? Perhaps you should check the all no-hitters ever thrown. Let me know how many had 14 of 27 strikeouts.
2/21/2008 11:08 AM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/21/2008
Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/21/2008

nuke, I'm sure it happens dozens of times a year. I'm equally sure that the team striking out 14 or more times doesn't score very many runs. I'm also equally sure that teams who make 14 or more outs via ground/fly score more on average than teams that make 13 or less out via ground/fly. I'm willing to wager on this. Even if it's only one game in 2008, I'm willing to take my chances. Are you?



Obviously I'm willing to take this bet with any idiot who has more money than brains(or balls for that matter). If you aren't willing to back up your claims with a couple of bucks, you're simply a blowhard. Which, quite frankly, does not surprise me.


Quote and confirm the amount, nuke.
2/21/2008 11:10 AM
_nuke_
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so are you accepting my terms or not?
2/21/2008 11:10 AM
hartjh14
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/21/2008
Quote: Originally Posted By hartjh14 on 2/21/2008

Quote: Originally Posted By hartjh14 on 2/21/2008

If a team strikes out 14 times, there's a good chance the pitcher was locked in that day and it's unlikely that the team would have scored much. You'd have to look at runs scored at every strikeout level and chart it out to be able to even try to draw a conclusion, and I don't think it's really that important.



A pitcher can only be "locked" in if he's striking out batters at alarming rates? Perhaps you should check the all no-hitters ever thrown. Let me know how many had 14 of 27 strikeouts.
Let me know where I said that. Why do you always insist on twisting people's words when you can't argue the facts?
2/21/2008 11:11 AM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By hartjh14 on 2/21/2008
Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/21/2008

Quote: Originally Posted By hartjh14 on 2/21/2008

Quote: Originally Posted By hartjh14 on 2/21/2008

If a team strikes out 14 times, there's a good chance the pitcher was locked in that day and it's unlikely that the team would have scored much. You'd have to look at runs scored at every strikeout level and chart it out to be able to even try to draw a conclusion, and I don't think it's really that important.



A pitcher can only be "locked" in if he's striking out batters at alarming rates? Perhaps you should check the all no-hitters ever thrown. Let me know how many had 14 of 27 strikeouts.
Let me know where I said that. Why do you always insist on twisting people's words when you can't argue the facts

Can he be "locked in" and record a mere 7 strikeouts?
2/21/2008 11:12 AM
hartjh14
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/21/2008
Quote: Originally Posted By hartjh14 on 2/21/2008

Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/21/2008

Quote: Originally Posted By hartjh14 on 2/21/2008

Quote: Originally Posted By hartjh14 on 2/21/2008

If a team strikes out 14 times, there's a good chance the pitcher was locked in that day and it's unlikely that the team would have scored much. You'd have to look at runs scored at every strikeout level and chart it out to be able to even try to draw a conclusion, and I don't think it's really that important.



A pitcher can only be "locked" in if he's striking out batters at alarming rates? Perhaps you should check the all no-hitters ever thrown. Let me know how many had 14 of 27 strikeouts.
Let me know where I said that. Why do you always insist on twisting people's words when you can't argue the facts?

Can he be "locked in" and record a mere 7 strikeouts?
In the past, I'm sure they were locked in with 0 strikeouts. But if a pitcher struck out 14, it's safe to assume he was locked in or his manager was Dusty Baker.
2/21/2008 11:14 AM
_nuke_
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hartjh14 didn't say only.
Just said there's a good chance. To argue against him you would have to show examples of pitchers striking out 14 guys and also giving up a lot of hits.
2/21/2008 11:14 AM
MikeT23
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If an out is an out, 14 flyouts are just as effective as 14 strikeouts. Correct?
2/21/2008 11:15 AM
_nuke_
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Mike:

Quote: Originally Posted By _nuke_ on 2/21/2008so are you accepting my terms or not
2/21/2008 11:15 AM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/21/2008
Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/21/2008

Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/21/2008

nuke, I'm sure it happens dozens of times a year. I'm equally sure that the team striking out 14 or more times doesn't score very many runs. I'm also equally sure that teams who make 14 or more outs via ground/fly score more on average than teams that make 13 or less out via ground/fly. I'm willing to wager on this. Even if it's only one game in 2008, I'm willing to take my chances. Are you?



Obviously I'm willing to take this bet with any idiot who has more money than brains(or balls for that matter). If you aren't willing to back up your claims with a couple of bucks, you're simply a blowhard. Which, quite frankly, does not surprise me.



Quote and confirm the amount, nuke.
2/21/2008 11:16 AM
_nuke_
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If your logic is sound, and strikeouts are bad for run scoring, it will show up at all levels. So to make sure, we can't rely on the few dozen (your estimate) 14+ K games, we need to look at all games.
Is that acceptable to you?
If you won't accept my terms, won't negotiate the bet at all, and you won't answer my question (are you arguing that teams that strikeout less score more runs?), I'm going to take it as an admission that you are wrong and move on.
2/21/2008 11:21 AM
MikeT23
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Take whatever you want as long as you move on.
I've clearly laid out a bet that represents both sides of the argument. If a team strikeouts more than they ground/flyout, they will not score as much if the situation is reversed. If an out is an out, that shouldn't be the case.
You are not willing to admit that I'm right OR accept the wager.
So, as you say, move on.
2/21/2008 11:32 AM
_nuke_
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Why won't you answer my question?
2/21/2008 11:35 AM
bosoxbill
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Quote: Originally Posted By bosoxbill on 2/21/2008
Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/21/2008

JUST LIKE BEFORE, I WANT TO EXTRAPOLATE FROM ONE TINY RARE SCENARIO - THEN THE SAC OUT, NOW THE 14+ K GAME - TO ALL OF BASEBALL!
Why not just wager that there's a correlation between strikeouts and runs scored in a game?

Do you think it only kicks in at 14?

Your theory, as I understand it, is that putting the ball in play instead of striking out helps ALL THE TIME, not just at 14+ Ks.

Right? You quoted yourself enough that I think I got the idea that you ALWAYS prefer the batted ball in play for an out to the K.

What's this silliness about 14 Ks, now?

You flip/flopping? That's fine. Only a matter of time, then, before you agree completely with us.

2/21/2008 11:37 AM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/21/2008
Take whatever you want as long as you move on.
I've clearly laid out a bet that represents both sides of the argument. If a team strikeouts more than they ground/flyout, they will not score as much if the situation is reversed. If an out is an out, that shouldn't be the case.
You are not willing to admit that I'm right OR accept the wager.
So, as you say, move on.
2/21/2008 11:39 AM
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