Posted by badja on 8/13/2011 6:40:00 PM (view original):
Fair enough.  His offensive game ain't special, but he can throw it down, which comes in handy (ouch).

I wasn't looking to put another #1 option in the paint like you did.  I'd rather have a defender/ rebounder beside Duncan (although I really prolly shoulda taken Karl there). 
Howard and Duncan are monster shot blockers in any era.   I think their rebounding would be there in any era as well. 
...and Howard hasn't reached his prime yet.

Ewing isn't a #1 option for my team either. I wanted him cuz of his D, shot blocking, rebounding, and he and Dream had range on their jumpers. I took Ewing cuz he was the best player available. Who will bring the ball in the paint against these 2? I really like what you got goin on with your team don't get me wrong but Howard's career isn't nearly as good at this point and I don't see him reaching that level ever.

Ewing wasn't even the best option on the board.  Ewing was a soft big man and the problem you have now is that you have two big men that played a lot on the perimeter.  Who is going to be the offensive rebounder?  No one. 

Remember when there is a theory named after you that is used to explain why you aren't that important it says something.

I think Ewing gets **** on a lot.  Then again, I feel sorry for all of the guys drafted and only played in eras headlined by Jordan, Magic or Bird.

Ewing definitely belongs in this league.  He had a reputation as a great defender in college, not in the pros.  He was a good but not great rebounder, and a fine shotblocker and a smart, active defender.  He was a very good scorer and did have a post-up game, but as he grew older he basically turned into a jump-shooting machine.  I don't think he was the best option as a defensive specialist / rebounder, if that was the objective.  Just my opinion.

Posted by malone9975 on 8/13/2011 7:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dh555 on 8/13/2011 5:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by snydpie on 8/13/2011 4:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dh555 on 8/13/2011 4:06:00 AM (view original):

Posted by snydpie on 8/12/2011 10:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by malone9975 on 8/12/2011 11:20:00 AM (view original):

Posted by all3 on 8/12/2011 10:32:00 AM (view original):

Posted by logain on 8/12/2011 9:59:00 AM (view original):
Hakeem's 10 less to's and 7 extra steal's seem like the big difference in the box score. Shaq got to the line more but only made 6 more fts.

Comparing these two is very interesting to me, but comparing either to Kareem or Wilt is just plain silly.  Sure Hakeem had one truly amazing season, but Kareem and Wilt each had many of those seasons, and sure Shaq was an incredibly efficient and dominant offensive player, but so were Kareem and Wilt, and they played defense and didn't miss half the season many times.

If Olajuwon played in that era who is to say that he would not have put up simliar stats to Kareem or Wilt.  The game in that era was faster and teams shot at a lower percentage so more rebounds and more scoring opportunities existed.  Olajuwon played when teams were not focusing on big men as much and offense was starting to revolve around the wing.  Hell many season Dream had to deal with guts like Vernon Maxwell and Sleepy Floyd who would chuck up as many shots as possible.  I couldn't count the number of times I saw Olajuwon start a break with a blocked shot or steal, and finish it on the other end with a dunk or a layup.

Amen malone, he was a one of a kind! The best player he played with during his championship years was Thorpe who was an extremely underated defensive player who could score around the basket and board but wasn't much of a shooter. The only PF who played better D than Thorpe during his career with the Rockets was Rodman and possibly Horace Grant.

yooo..what about drexler?

and i was kinda young when thorpe was ballin but his career numbers say he was a pretty damn good shooter....as for defense what about kemp or oakley or buck or malone

Drexler wasn't at his best when he was with the Rockets

but he was still the best player hakeem played with during his titles

Drexler wasn't better than Thorpe.  Period.

drexler was 20/7/5 during the 95 playoffs....thorpe was 11 and 10 during the 94 playoffs

drexler and thorpe were both 32....its not like either guy was in their prime

drexler was a 10 time all-star and someone who might get drafted here...thorpe will not


i know thats your squad so what am i missing here?....seems like its a no brainer

Posted by malone9975 on 8/13/2011 8:13:00 PM (view original):
Ewing wasn't even the best option on the board.  Ewing was a soft big man and the problem you have now is that you have two big men that played a lot on the perimeter.  Who is going to be the offensive rebounder?  No one. 

Remember when there is a theory named after you that is used to explain why you aren't that important it says something.

Soft, seriously? He was a tough defender and rebounder! He was a great rebounder who played on a team with Oakley and Mason who were on the weak side gettin alot of offensive rebounds which Ewing would excell at also. This combination would be like Robinson & Duncan except they would both be in their prime.

Magic needs a running mate to feed the rock to... someone to keep up with the Kobes and Wades, D them up.. Not sure if this is the best option (because I never saw him play inrl and there's another old school guy I like) but he gets the nod for everything I've read/know about him, which includes his D and will to win, not to mention his scoring on the break, clutch factor, and limitless energy. With him and Magic on the court together, they'll no doubt always find a way to win.

John Havlicek

Not deliberately, I'm putting together the All-Nickname team, I think.
Magic
Hondo
???

OK we are seriously disrespecting someone at this point.

Posted by snydpie on 8/13/2011 4:50:00 PM (view original):
I will take the 2nd best defensive C of the last 4 decades, great rebounder, shot blocker, and scorer and one of the most underrated C's of all time.
Now I have 2 two great C's who can both defend PF's.

Patrick Ewing 

"the 2nd best defensive C of the last 4 decades"

Fail.

Posted by logain on 8/13/2011 11:23:00 PM (view original):
OK we are seriously disrespecting someone at this point.

lol

Elgin Baylor


I want the high flying early 60s Elgin, before he wrecked his knee. His role won't totally be defined yet until I figure out his teammates. I don't expect him to be my #1 scoring option though. I picked him mostly for his athletic ability at the sf spot. I feel like he can match up with any sf out there defensively and could create problems for opposing defenses with his inside scoring game. With this team though he will really thrive playing off of Wilt. Wilt will be feeding Baylor cutting to the basket for high flying layups and dunks. Baylor will be giving me a huge advantage on the glass as he may be the best rebounding sf of all time. I love the fact that he should thrive in the fast break game as well. The poor shooting numbers suck but alot of it's due to the pace of the game at the time and the fact that he was counted on to shoot a lot for his team. With this team I don't expect there to be much pressure on him to shoot a ton of shots(though he can be that kind of guy if the team needed it) meaning his shot selection should be better. The lack of an outside shot is obviously the disadvantage with him and I'll be needing shooting from my guard spots(shouldn't be a problem).

Was this pick a steal? I'm not so sure myself as he is a tough player to judge historically. Any comments about the pick from you old heads that know more about him would be appreciated.

dh...the difference between Thorpe and Drexler is that Drexler more or less took shots that were going to Kenny Smith, Vernon Maxwell (friggin idiot), Robert Horry (who had is best statistical years with Houston), Sam Cassell, and Mario Elie.  He didn't create anything he just took.  That isn't all bad though.  Taking shots away from Horry, Cassell, and Maxwell was great.  Taking shots away from Smith and Elie not so great.  By contrast a lot of the offense of those Rocket teams were predicated on passing into Olajuwon and seeing if he could shake someone and once he drew a double team someone could hit the three.  Many times we know Olajuwon is going shoot and having Thorpe to clean the offensive glass was the key.  Not much offense was run directly for Thorpe.  Thorpe would get the rebound and go back up with it, or pass it back out, or tip it up so another teammate could get the OReb.  Many of Olajuwon's rebounds came from Thorpe tipping the ball and Olajuwon hustling toward it.

We all know here that Olajuwon was a transcendent defender and probably had the best midrange game of any center in his era.  The Rockets went from a dominating 94 season with their offense intact with a lineup of:

PG Smith
SG Maxwell
SF Horry
PF Thorpe
C Dream

To midway through 95 with an ultimate lineup of:

PG Smith
SG Drexler
SF Elie
PF Horry
C Dream

When looking at that you can say that 95 is the superior team from a defensive standpoint, but certainly not on offense.  Horry at PF is somewhat insane considering how in love with the three he was, and also considering that the Rockets needed an interior rebounder and there are none to be seen there.  Olajuwon is often too busy to rebound since on the offensive end he is shooting 8-18 ft. fadeaways and on D he is blocking shots.

The reason the 94 Rockets won the title is simple A. Seattle screwed the pooch (the first 1 seed to lose to an 8 seed...who can forget John Elway and his "Let's get ready to Mutombooooooooooooooooo!") B. The Rockets were bettter than everyone else.

The reason the 95 Rockets won the title is a bit more complex A. Karl Malone was a ***** (this can never be stated enough) B. Phoenix choked right around the same time the Elie went nuclear C. David Robinson won the MVP and decided to flaunt it in front of Dream before the WCF so Dream, in Jordan like fashion, beat the ever loving **** out of Admiral and Rodman (why would Rodman guard a marginal midrange guy like Horry who didn't even have the Big Shot Bob moniker yet?) D. The Rockets and everyone else watching the NBA FInals in 1995 were amazed to see Nick Anderson's funeral coupled with a team of talented but young players who were not ready to deal with a veteran team.  To sum it up 1995 was a lot of luck and a ton of Olajuwon doing unreal things.

Now to sum this up....Thorpe made the team more complete and gave the team more options.  If the three wasn't dropping Olajuwon could step in to add more scoring, or Thorpe with his rebounding could scoring inside quite efficently (he had a knack for get the and-1 more than most any player in the league). With Drexler and no Thorpe you had to hope and pray that you were knocking down your three's because if not you were going to get blown out.

Finally Elgin goes.

I need a Power Forward.  Someone who has arms disproportionately long when compared to his 6'11 frame.  I would like for him to be able to rebound some, but it would be really cool if he had about 1000 or so moves in the post.  Playing D is a must.  Out of control armpit hair is a must as well.

I don't care if you are going to be a black hole so long as you hit 60%+ of your FG's and 80%+ of your Free Throws.

86-87 Kevin McHale

Posted by malone9975 on 8/14/2011 12:15:00 AM (view original):
dh...the difference between Thorpe and Drexler is that Drexler more or less took shots that were going to Kenny Smith, Vernon Maxwell (friggin idiot), Robert Horry (who had is best statistical years with Houston), Sam Cassell, and Mario Elie.  He didn't create anything he just took.  That isn't all bad though.  Taking shots away from Horry, Cassell, and Maxwell was great.  Taking shots away from Smith and Elie not so great.  By contrast a lot of the offense of those Rocket teams were predicated on passing into Olajuwon and seeing if he could shake someone and once he drew a double team someone could hit the three.  Many times we know Olajuwon is going shoot and having Thorpe to clean the offensive glass was the key.  Not much offense was run directly for Thorpe.  Thorpe would get the rebound and go back up with it, or pass it back out, or tip it up so another teammate could get the OReb.  Many of Olajuwon's rebounds came from Thorpe tipping the ball and Olajuwon hustling toward it.

We all know here that Olajuwon was a transcendent defender and probably had the best midrange game of any center in his era.  The Rockets went from a dominating 94 season with their offense intact with a lineup of:

PG Smith
SG Maxwell
SF Horry
PF Thorpe
C Dream

To midway through 95 with an ultimate lineup of:

PG Smith
SG Drexler
SF Elie
PF Horry
C Dream

When looking at that you can say that 95 is the superior team from a defensive standpoint, but certainly not on offense.  Horry at PF is somewhat insane considering how in love with the three he was, and also considering that the Rockets needed an interior rebounder and there are none to be seen there.  Olajuwon is often too busy to rebound since on the offensive end he is shooting 8-18 ft. fadeaways and on D he is blocking shots.

The reason the 94 Rockets won the title is simple A. Seattle screwed the pooch (the first 1 seed to lose to an 8 seed...who can forget John Elway and his "Let's get ready to Mutombooooooooooooooooo!") B. The Rockets were bettter than everyone else.

The reason the 95 Rockets won the title is a bit more complex A. Karl Malone was a ***** (this can never be stated enough) B. Phoenix choked right around the same time the Elie went nuclear C. David Robinson won the MVP and decided to flaunt it in front of Dream before the WCF so Dream, in Jordan like fashion, beat the ever loving **** out of Admiral and Rodman (why would Rodman guard a marginal midrange guy like Horry who didn't even have the Big Shot Bob moniker yet?) D. The Rockets and everyone else watching the NBA FInals in 1995 were amazed to see Nick Anderson's funeral coupled with a team of talented but young players who were not ready to deal with a veteran team.  To sum it up 1995 was a lot of luck and a ton of Olajuwon doing unreal things.

Now to sum this up....Thorpe made the team more complete and gave the team more options.  If the three wasn't dropping Olajuwon could step in to add more scoring, or Thorpe with his rebounding could scoring inside quite efficently (he had a knack for get the and-1 more than most any player in the league). With Drexler and no Thorpe you had to hope and pray that you were knocking down your three's because if not you were going to get blown out.

ok...now the whole thorpe>drexler thing makes more sense to me....nice post malone....i still think drexler was his best teammate, but from an individual standpoint