Savage Draft Commentary thread Topic

Posted by dh555 on 5/23/2020 5:30:00 PM (view original):
wow....i love the elite d strategy and definitely thought someone was gonna be doing it after grabbing hakeem or dr. j in the 2nd...did not see that person being ben tho...im kinda shocked
Yeah, i don’t know what i expected from Ben at the turn, but that wasn’t it.

I thought Dr. J lasted too long. I had him in my top 20. The efg isn’t always great, but brings tons of high-quality minutes with elite D and great rebounds for a SG/SF. Great pick.

I didn’t have Hakeem as high. I wouldn’t relish trying to build around 5 different seasons of his. But there’s certainly a theme developing there.
5/23/2020 6:53 PM
Posted by ashamael on 5/23/2020 6:39:00 PM (view original):
So Oscar just kind of came out of left field for me. I'm not in love with it, but here's my reasoning:

Klay is fantastic but low on minutes, rebounds, and assists.
I was looking at (guy A - now drafted, Steve Nash) who would be an incredible fit with Klay as he doubles up on what Klay does well (usg%, efg% - particularly 3s - can you imagine that backcourt bombers?!) and gives a ton of dimes, but has some severe weaknesses I didn't want to mess with (defense, turnovers, doubles up on the board weakness of Klay)
I was looking at (guy B) who would be an incredible fit with Klay who makes up for his weaknesses and gives a ton of dimes but has some of the opposite severe weaknesses I didn't want to mess with.
I was looking at (guy C) who would give me flexibility on down the road by providing boards, D, a ton of minutes, good number of dimes from the position, and positional flexibility, but all of this talk about run on point guards is real. So I started looking at guys that gave me five seasons of what I wanted to pair up with Klay and judge if any of them would make it back to me.

I though that maybe - MAYBE - one might, but Ben picks ahead of me in round 3 and hasn't picked a PG yet, so that confirmed I was going to go with a PG. I loosened my search parameters just a bit, and all of the sudden, the Big O was staring at me.

Klay's bad at boards. Oscar grabs lots of them.
Klay's bad at dimes. Oscar sends out enough (one likely season of use is less than 25% ast%; rest are above)
Klay's short on minutes. Oscar has like 8 seasons over 3400 minutes.
Oscar has solid usage every season.
Oscar has 50% or higher efg% every season I'm thinking of using him, including a 54% and a couple over 52%.
Oscar has 70+ defense most of the seasons I'm considering.
Oscar has a ton of usable seasons so there's flexibility there, too.

In the end, it just seemed to make sense. It opens up doors for me in round 3, where I can go in many different directions, where if I had gone with guy A or guy B, I was going to be forced to take a certain type of player in round 3. If I had gone guy C, I'd be forced to take a PG in round 3 that I wasn't happy with.

Of course, Oscar may have made it to round 3. I don't know. Also, I won one of my $52m draft titles with Oscar, though granted, that was A LONG TIME AGO
No chance Oscar would have been there for your 3rd rounder. I thought he would probably go in the first round. I think it’s a very solid pick.
5/23/2020 6:56 PM
my god this commentary thread is outstanding
5/23/2020 6:58 PM
19. jcred5 - Giannis Antetokounmpo - As stated earlier, I thought he might make it to round 2 because lack of minutes in his best season, lack of a fifth decent season, and the whole positional ambiguity factor. I have since learned how wrong I was. Ha! I still had him as a mid 1st grade despite all of that, so it's not really that surprising to see him go when he did. Great usage, great efg% 3 seasons, elite 1 season, elite defense, great ast% for a frontcourt guy, fantastic drb% at the 3 several seasons (and great at the 4 for that season). All in all, tip top tier talent.

20. goetz93 - Scottie Pippen - Scottie's near the top of what I classify as Shooting Guards that don't shoot threes, but he actually does shoot quite a bit in several seasons. Top notch defense, rebounding, and assists from a two guard combined with tier 3 usage and solid efg% makes him a great piece to build around. I had him graded as a late 1st/early 2nd.

21. longtallbrad - Dennis Rodman - There's been a whole lot of discussion about Worm, and rightfully so. This ain't a cap league where you have to worry about trying to fit in the elitest of the elite, the bestest of the best, the mostest of the most, that 91-92 season. Like... as long as you don't screw up and go board-light in the rest of the frontcourt, you simply win the rebound battle for that season. He has two great full-minute seasons that are not SF eligible, several partial-minute seasons that are the same, and then several seasons where he IS 100% small forward eligible. I have him as a mid 1st grade talent wise, but wouldn't pick him till the end of the 1st because of how important I think it is in this league specifically to establish an offensive threat for five seasons, thus going 21st seems perfect, because you're going to be able to pair him immediately with someone that takes care of that. As I mentioned before, my plan (and Ben's - which should say something) was to grab Worm & Giannis on the turn. I also like Worm & AD or Garnett for similar reasons (the positional ambiguity game), and I really never like Garnett except in progs so that's saying something. There's one other guy I really like with him (based specifically in that positional ambiguity thing), but I don't think it's necessary to go that route. Had Worm fell to me and Ben picked Giannis, I had a list of several guys that I would have been delighted to pair with him. Superior boards + superior defense. Best of the best at what he does.

22. jhsukow - Anthony Davis, Steve Nash - So, like, he has that one season that is absolutely GODLY and several others that are really, really good. Short minutes hurts his value in this for me just slightly, but you & I both are drafting at the point where I feel that is becoming less of an issue. Overall, Davis (sim-wise) feels (somewhat) like a souped-up Hakeem (who I am HIGH on in this format, unlike where I've stood for the past decade on him in draft leagues in general) with less minutes. And offensive boards. And dimes. I think the minutes thing might be a challenge for you later on, but that's just part of the fun of this - not knowing. Nash was one of the guys I kept going over & over & over on my team. Nice usage, best efg% from a PG that isn't banned, best 3s from a PG that isn't banned, one of the few players that give you around 40% ast% for at least 4 seasons... his boards & turnovers blow - not to mention the lack of defense - but those positives probably outweigh the negatives by a good bit, especially when AD's strengths help curb that somewhat, and the positives Nash brings balance nicely with some of AD's negatives. I had AD as a late 1st/early 2nd grade & Nash as an early-mid 2nd grade.

23. ashamael - Klay Thompson, Oscar Robertson - what a poser! Does he even know what ADP is?!

24. benhoidal - Hakeem Olajuwon, Julius Erving - I could not have been more shocked by these selections. Not because they aren't good, because I would have never expected you to go in this direction. Yet when you said what you said, it makes total sense. Let's break it down: Hakeem is really, really good in this format. Had you not taken him, I probably would have as soon as it was my turn again. While he's inconsistent at efg% in his top seasons (none are bad really; it's just weird seeing 53%-54% and 49%-50% really close together), it's still solid, especially in this format. His defense is tippity toppity. He won't hurt you on the boards (though I really like a couple of seasons that are on the weaker side on orb% for a 4/5), has decent dimes (some seasons), typically a tier 2 usage guy... helps you in both the shooting struggle & possession battle. All in all, he's just *solid* as **** in this format. Lots of minutes, too. Him & Duncan are actually quite similar if you look at just the top several seasons of each. The Doctor is another of those Shooting Guards that don't shoot threes, and like Pippen, he's about as good as they come. He's exactly like Hakeem when it comes to the usage/efg% thing - some seasons that aren't exactly exciting (50%) but don't hurt you; some that are actually quite nice (54%). Nice boards & defense at the two. Lots of minutes for lots of seasons. And you don't have to stick him at the two, but if I know you, that's where he'll be. You have extreme flexibility with your later picks and won't be hamstrung by someone taking a certain player like a lot of teams will be. I don't know if the strategy will pay off, but it's definitely one that nobody else is employing as of yet. I had the Dream as a mid/late 1st grade and the Doctor as an early 2nd grade.
5/23/2020 7:11 PM (edited)
i have a feeling there will be quite a few opinions on this next pick...who does ltb pair with rodman?

couple really interesting options...
5/23/2020 7:10 PM
Posted by dh555 on 5/23/2020 7:10:00 PM (view original):
i have a feeling there will be quite a few opinions on this next pick...who does ltb pair with rodman?

couple really interesting options...
There's only one way I **** on this pick, and it will be the only pick I potentially **** on through this entire draft, I think.

Except may his third, fourth, and fifth round selections. I don't know how people have done it the past few years, but in the past, I just always felt that people ****** up Worm teams.
5/23/2020 7:18 PM
The best part of this draft is the growing realization that none of my 2nd round targets are realistic, and after the first 30 or so guys the round I have guys loosely pegged is probably at least one too late in most cases. I have three guys from a couple different positions I’d love to get with my next pick but looking at the board I can’t see how they would be there.
5/23/2020 7:25 PM
I was so far off with Klay. Thought I had good chance at him in 2nd. Knew he would be one of dhs targets, but really thought I had chance at him in 2nd
5/23/2020 7:28 PM
21. longtallbrad - Dennis Rodman, Dwyane Wade - So far, so good! D-Wade is at the top of the list for me (well, after Jordan) for Shooting Guards that don't shoot threes. high usg, fine efg% for said usg, dominant def, high ast% = ideal SG (that doesn't shoot threes). Boards are so-so, turnovers are also so-so, fouled% is high. This is exactly the type of guy you needed right here, though there are some who would place (undrafted) ahead of him... and they might not be wrong. I had Wade as a late 1st/early 2nd grade.
5/23/2020 7:35 PM
You have extreme flexibility with your later picks and won't be hamstrung by someone taking a certain player like a lot of teams will be. I don't know if the strategy will pay off, but it's definitely one that nobody else is employing as of yet.


This. These two sentences basically describe my entire strategy at the turn with those two picks.
5/23/2020 7:39 PM
Posted by 24kpyrite on 5/23/2020 7:28:00 PM (view original):
I was so far off with Klay. Thought I had good chance at him in 2nd. Knew he would be one of dhs targets, but really thought I had chance at him in 2nd
Do a search:

minutes > 2400
usg > 22.1
efg% > 55
def > 60
3pa48 > 5

You'll get four guys. Two of them are banned in this format. One of them is Durant (four seasons). The other is Thompson (five). Now put defense up to 70. Same four guys but down to 12 seasons. Klay has five of those seasons, Durant three Now put 3pa48 > 6. Now there's 9 seasons, Klay has 5 of them. Up to 7? Klay 5/7. 8 is the same. 9 takes it to Steph + 5 Klays. Pretty unique in the sim!
5/23/2020 7:42 PM
oh wait, are we supposed to be thinking that hard about this?
5/23/2020 7:49 PM
Longtallbrad is a legend, so he doesn’t need any feedback from me. But man, Rodman at the 3 and Wade at the 2 is going to make getting enough threes real, real hard.
5/23/2020 7:50 PM
Posted by ashamael on 5/23/2020 7:42:00 PM (view original):
Posted by 24kpyrite on 5/23/2020 7:28:00 PM (view original):
I was so far off with Klay. Thought I had good chance at him in 2nd. Knew he would be one of dhs targets, but really thought I had chance at him in 2nd
Do a search:

minutes > 2400
usg > 22.1
efg% > 55
def > 60
3pa48 > 5

You'll get four guys. Two of them are banned in this format. One of them is Durant (four seasons). The other is Thompson (five). Now put defense up to 70. Same four guys but down to 12 seasons. Klay has five of those seasons, Durant three Now put 3pa48 > 6. Now there's 9 seasons, Klay has 5 of them. Up to 7? Klay 5/7. 8 is the same. 9 takes it to Steph + 5 Klays. Pretty unique in the sim!
I literally did this and still picked AD...SMDH
5/23/2020 7:54 PM
I was a little surprised Ben took Dr J over DWade. Both very good choices at SG at this spot in the draft, but DWade can play minutes at PG also. Probably could have flipped a coin between those two and been just fine either way. These were the two I would have taken over Pippen at SG, btw.... mainly because we need a 5 season strech.
5/23/2020 8:15 PM (edited)
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