Cash in trades - Do worlds discourage it? Topic

danmam
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6/14/2009 4:13 PM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By pstrnutbag44 on 6/14/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 6/13/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By cjlancaster on 6/13/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 6/13/2009

Here's the problem(try to follow along):

Player A makes a trade and gets 5m more in cash in the deal . Player B, C and D get in on the action because they have extra payroll. So you're prepared to tell Player E that he can't take advantage of the same deal because "it's going too far"?

Sorry, Player E has EVERY RIGHT to do EVERTHING in his power to ruin the league.




This may be the dumbest thing I have ever read. You don't like a league, drop it. Don't ruin it for the other 31 people. If you are in an hoenstly unfair situation, I'm sure that many owners will drop at the end of the season and the world will die. Mikey, can you honestly be advocating this kind of behavior?



Yes. I absolutely am.
Kinda shocked by this though. This mentality is really helpful for the game. I follow the idea, but doing things out of spite is both childish and lame, amongst other things. I think we've hit the reason most of these idiotic problems and discussions take place to begin with. Seems a lot of owners are childish, spiteful, hateful, hurtful, insecure and many, many more adjectives that I neither have the time nor desire to type as it reminds me I am playing a game with some folks who are more immature then my own children. For F's sake fellas, grow a spine and be a "man" about your internet games. They're just games, to be played for fun. Have fun. Enjoy yourselves. Once you've gone past that and actually have true, deep personal feelings about these folks and a desire to be spiteful towards them or you feel a need to ruin their world, you've got some issues worth exploring with a professional.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCLAIMER:

This rant is not directed at any user in particular, but if the shoe fits, you know who you are.

;-)


Very simple.

If owners who are getting wronged(legitimately) just take their ball and go home, another owner takes their place and the process simply repeats itself. The situation reeks of collusion(at worst) or the "good ol' boy" system(at best). Making a mess will draw attention to the situation. That's what is needed to "fix" the world.

And, as I've said in this thread, there are owners who are doing super traderapes(with n00bs or aliases) that should be vetoed. I don't condone trashing the team because you can't rape your alias or n00b.
6/14/2009 4:14 PM
tropicana
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6/14/2009 4:27 PM
danmam
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So what exactly is your argument against any and all cash trades? Is it that it's inconsistent vetoing (poor reasoning, as I outlined in a previous post) or is it that it negatively effects other teams? If it's the latter, then I just don't buy it. Almost every trade will negatively effect a team, because almost every trade will positively effect a team.
6/14/2009 4:34 PM
tropicana
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It changes the budgeting rules, danmam. Which is something that I'm against. We spend an entire day budgeting -- it's obviously pretty important. Throwing cash around willy-nilly completely invalidates budget day entirely, and lets you do whatever you want with your budget. That's something that I feel is VERY negative for a league.

Consistency is also a big part of the equation. Your argument as it's poor reasoning doesn't make sense, because you're trying to say all trades are the same while at the same time arguing that all trades are different and deserved to be looked at on their own merit. You can't make the argument one way and then turn around and use the opposite as a point in your favor....

Luckily, I don't have to care what argument you buy and don't because I won't be in a league with you ever...I wouldn't put up with the type of shenenigans that you allow with these cash deals.
6/14/2009 4:39 PM
pstrnutbag44
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 6/14/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By pstrnutbag44 on 6/14/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 6/13/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By cjlancaster on 6/13/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 6/13/2009

Here's the problem(try to follow along):

Player A makes a trade and gets 5m more in cash in the deal . Player B, C and D get in on the action because they have extra payroll. So you're prepared to tell Player E that he can't take advantage of the same deal because "it's going too far"?

Sorry, Player E has EVERY RIGHT to do EVERTHING in his power to ruin the league.




This may be the dumbest thing I have ever read. You don't like a league, drop it. Don't ruin it for the other 31 people. If you are in an hoenstly unfair situation, I'm sure that many owners will drop at the end of the season and the world will die. Mikey, can you honestly be advocating this kind of behavior?



Yes. I absolutely am.
Kinda shocked by this though. This mentality is really helpful for the game. I follow the idea, but doing things out of spite is both childish and lame, amongst other things. I think we've hit the reason most of these idiotic problems and discussions take place to begin with. Seems a lot of owners are childish, spiteful, hateful, hurtful, insecure and many, many more adjectives that I neither have the time nor desire to type as it reminds me I am playing a game with some folks who are more immature then my own children. For F's sake fellas, grow a spine and be a "man" about your internet games. They're just games, to be played for fun. Have fun. Enjoy yourselves. Once you've gone past that and actually have true, deep personal feelings about these folks and a desire to be spiteful towards them or you feel a need to ruin their world, you've got some issues worth exploring with a professional.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCLAIMER:

This rant is not directed at any user in particular, but if the shoe fits, you know who you are.

;-)



Very simple.

If owners who are getting wronged(legitimately) just take their ball and go home, another owner takes their place and the process simply repeats itself. The situation reeks of collusion(at worst) or the "good ol' boy" system(at best). Making a mess will draw attention to the situation. That's what is needed to "fix" the world.

And, as I've said in this thread, there are owners who are doing super traderapes(with n00bs or aliases) that should be vetoed. I don't condone trashing the team because you can't rape your alias or n00b.
So, instead of dropping all of your players or anything equally dick-ish like that, why not just post about it in the forums so that everyone knows? Seems you'd accomplish your goal in a more constructive manner. The whole "Two wrongs don't make a right" thing. If you really are trying to do something helpful, there are ways to go about it in a much more dignified manner. Anything else is just spiteful and puts you right on thier level anyways.
6/14/2009 4:47 PM
danmam
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First of all, you're acting like cash trades flat-out correct all budgeting mistakes with no consequences for the owner who made the mistake. That's incorrect: the owner pays for his mistake by having to give up a prospect, or sometimes more. Are you against budget transfers, too? That takes away some of the importance of budget day, too.

You're completely misinterpreting my consistency argument as well. I'm in no way arguing that all trades are the same. In fact, I'm arguing that YOU'RE the one treating all trades the same, by grouping all cash trades together rather than looking at each based on its merits. Just as you wouldn't group all player trades together, you shouldn't group all cash trades together. Each is different, and each needs to be looked at based on the merits, fairness, and effects of each trade.
6/14/2009 4:52 PM
tropicana
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That isn't what you've been arguing, but ok. I'm sick of saying the same thing over and over again, and then having you tell me what I just said (when it is, in fact, not what I said), so you win. Good for you. You can even have the last word.....wait for it.....GO.
6/14/2009 4:58 PM
danmam
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WOOHOO!
6/14/2009 5:13 PM
tecwrg
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Is that your final answer? (Pretty lame, if it is).
6/14/2009 5:21 PM
danmam
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6/14/2009 5:24 PM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By pstrnutbag44 on 6/14/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 6/14/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By pstrnutbag44 on 6/14/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 6/13/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By cjlancaster on 6/13/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 6/13/2009

Here's the problem(try to follow along):

Player A makes a trade and gets 5m more in cash in the deal . Player B, C and D get in on the action because they have extra payroll. So you're prepared to tell Player E that he can't take advantage of the same deal because "it's going too far"?

Sorry, Player E has EVERY RIGHT to do EVERTHING in his power to ruin the league.




This may be the dumbest thing I have ever read. You don't like a league, drop it. Don't ruin it for the other 31 people. If you are in an hoenstly unfair situation, I'm sure that many owners will drop at the end of the season and the world will die. Mikey, can you honestly be advocating this kind of behavior?



Yes. I absolutely am.
Kinda shocked by this though. This mentality is really helpful for the game. I follow the idea, but doing things out of spite is both childish and lame, amongst other things. I think we've hit the reason most of these idiotic problems and discussions take place to begin with. Seems a lot of owners are childish, spiteful, hateful, hurtful, insecure and many, many more adjectives that I neither have the time nor desire to type as it reminds me I am playing a game with some folks who are more immature then my own children. For F's sake fellas, grow a spine and be a "man" about your internet games. They're just games, to be played for fun. Have fun. Enjoy yourselves. Once you've gone past that and actually have true, deep personal feelings about these folks and a desire to be spiteful towards them or you feel a need to ruin their world, you've got some issues worth exploring with a professional.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCLAIMER:

This rant is not directed at any user in particular, but if the shoe fits, you know who you are.

;-)



Very simple.

If owners who are getting wronged(legitimately) just take their ball and go home, another owner takes their place and the process simply repeats itself. The situation reeks of collusion(at worst) or the "good ol' boy" system(at best). Making a mess will draw attention to the situation. That's what is needed to "fix" the world.

And, as I've said in this thread, there are owners who are doing super traderapes(with n00bs or aliases) that should be vetoed. I don't condone trashing the team because you can't rape your alias or n00b.
So, instead of dropping all of your players or anything equally dick-ish like that, why not just post about it in the forums so that everyone knows? Seems you'd accomplish your goal in a more constructive manner. The whole "Two wrongs don't make a right" thing. If you really are trying to do something helpful, there are ways to go about it in a much more dignified manner. Anything else is just spiteful and puts you right on thier level anyways


Because extreme actions draw a lot more attention to the matter.

A guy says "The bastards are vetoing my trades". No one in the league responds. The thread disappears.

A guys says "This ******* dropped all his players!! Kill him!!" ******* responds and the people get to see what is really going on because the thread stays active.

Now, of course, there's no guarantee that the crappy league says anything. But the odds are much better if there's an action to prompt a response.
6/14/2009 6:11 PM
genghisxcon
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Quote: Originally Posted By deanod on 6/13/2009

Quote: Originally posted by MikeT23 on 6/13/2009

That's really not it.

People want to play an internet game. They'd like to play under the same guidelines as everyone else. When their opponents refuse to allow it, they don't really have any options. I've never seen anyone(with the exception of me) say "I'll re-imburse you, I just want you out". So you get your pound of flesh in the only way possible.

so why didn't you get your pound of flesh before leaving world greenwell?

if you had another shot, would you have stripped the roster?

and most importantly, would you have sent doc woods to me?
If he actually did what he advocates, he'd be blacklisted. If you were a commish, would you let someone in your league who issues a standing threat to sabotage the world if he feels wronged?
6/14/2009 6:25 PM
plague
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6/14/2009 11:40 PM
plague
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6/14/2009 11:46 PM
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Cash in trades - Do worlds discourage it? Topic
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