Posted by garyman on 8/13/2011 11:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by snydpie on 8/13/2011 4:50:00 PM (view original):
I will take the 2nd best defensive C of the last 4 decades, great rebounder, shot blocker, and scorer and one of the most underrated C's of all time.
Now I have 2 two great C's who can both defend PF's.

Patrick Ewing 

"the 2nd best defensive C of the last 4 decades"

Fail.

wasnt even the best defensive center from georgetown

snydpie...Ewing, ugh!  You are, like me, a diehard Olajuwon fan.  How can you not say Ewing was soft?  First things first lets look a the centers that I find more imposing on the defensive side of the ball from 1985 to 2000.

Olajuwon (duh)
Robinson
Mutombo
Eaton
Mourning

Ewing comes after those guys.  The toughness on the Knicks teams came from guys like Starks, Mason, and Oakley.  Ewing was a big guy, and the defensive focal point, but always seemed to shrink in the spotlight.  A "tough" guy would have put Olajuwon on his butt.  A "tough" guy wouldn't allow himself to get pwned by Rik Smits in the playoffs.  A "tough" guy wouldn't have a (trademark Bill Simmons) theory named after him that loosely states...when an overrated superstar is removed from a lineup the team does better (99-00 NBA Playoffs being one of the evidences of this).  Ewing should have dominated Chicago, but didn't (he had to go 7 against the Chicago Pippenaires in 94).  He should have killed Indiana (even in the later part of his career) but he didn't.  Miami should not have been as difficult as they were for the Knicks, but he couldn't stop Mourning...something a top 2 defender should have been able to do.

Ewing belongs in this league, yes.  In the second round, no.  The HOFer's that are still out there makes me think he doesn't become a solid value until the 4th round.

Posted by dh555 on 8/14/2011 12:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by garyman on 8/13/2011 11:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by snydpie on 8/13/2011 4:50:00 PM (view original):
I will take the 2nd best defensive C of the last 4 decades, great rebounder, shot blocker, and scorer and one of the most underrated C's of all time.
Now I have 2 two great C's who can both defend PF's.

Patrick Ewing 

"the 2nd best defensive C of the last 4 decades"

Fail.

wasnt even the best defensive center from georgetown

he was top 3...lol

Posted by dh555 on 8/14/2011 12:32:00 AM (view original):

Posted by malone9975 on 8/14/2011 12:15:00 AM (view original):
dh...the difference between Thorpe and Drexler is that Drexler more or less took shots that were going to Kenny Smith, Vernon Maxwell (friggin idiot), Robert Horry (who had is best statistical years with Houston), Sam Cassell, and Mario Elie.  He didn't create anything he just took.  That isn't all bad though.  Taking shots away from Horry, Cassell, and Maxwell was great.  Taking shots away from Smith and Elie not so great.  By contrast a lot of the offense of those Rocket teams were predicated on passing into Olajuwon and seeing if he could shake someone and once he drew a double team someone could hit the three.  Many times we know Olajuwon is going shoot and having Thorpe to clean the offensive glass was the key.  Not much offense was run directly for Thorpe.  Thorpe would get the rebound and go back up with it, or pass it back out, or tip it up so another teammate could get the OReb.  Many of Olajuwon's rebounds came from Thorpe tipping the ball and Olajuwon hustling toward it.

We all know here that Olajuwon was a transcendent defender and probably had the best midrange game of any center in his era.  The Rockets went from a dominating 94 season with their offense intact with a lineup of:

PG Smith
SG Maxwell
SF Horry
PF Thorpe
C Dream

To midway through 95 with an ultimate lineup of:

PG Smith
SG Drexler
SF Elie
PF Horry
C Dream

When looking at that you can say that 95 is the superior team from a defensive standpoint, but certainly not on offense.  Horry at PF is somewhat insane considering how in love with the three he was, and also considering that the Rockets needed an interior rebounder and there are none to be seen there.  Olajuwon is often too busy to rebound since on the offensive end he is shooting 8-18 ft. fadeaways and on D he is blocking shots.

The reason the 94 Rockets won the title is simple A. Seattle screwed the pooch (the first 1 seed to lose to an 8 seed...who can forget John Elway and his "Let's get ready to Mutombooooooooooooooooo!") B. The Rockets were bettter than everyone else.

The reason the 95 Rockets won the title is a bit more complex A. Karl Malone was a ***** (this can never be stated enough) B. Phoenix choked right around the same time the Elie went nuclear C. David Robinson won the MVP and decided to flaunt it in front of Dream before the WCF so Dream, in Jordan like fashion, beat the ever loving **** out of Admiral and Rodman (why would Rodman guard a marginal midrange guy like Horry who didn't even have the Big Shot Bob moniker yet?) D. The Rockets and everyone else watching the NBA FInals in 1995 were amazed to see Nick Anderson's funeral coupled with a team of talented but young players who were not ready to deal with a veteran team.  To sum it up 1995 was a lot of luck and a ton of Olajuwon doing unreal things.

Now to sum this up....Thorpe made the team more complete and gave the team more options.  If the three wasn't dropping Olajuwon could step in to add more scoring, or Thorpe with his rebounding could scoring inside quite efficently (he had a knack for get the and-1 more than most any player in the league). With Drexler and no Thorpe you had to hope and pray that you were knocking down your three's because if not you were going to get blown out.

ok...now the whole thorpe>drexler thing makes more sense to me....nice post malone....i still think drexler was his best teammate, but from an individual standpoint

I agree about the teammate thing.  Olajuwon and Drexler were always close and I think in the middle of a turbulent season Clyde gave Dream some peace.

Very interested in who mjs teammates will be. Thought pippen might drop this far but there are lots of good choices obviously.

I'll finish out Boston's original Big Three - The Chief, Robert Parish. A sweet-shooting big man with size and athleticism who knows how to win.

And in case anyone thought we'd be light on the boards, I give you recent Hall inductee Dennis Rodman. Now Jordan can have him on the same team for more than 3 years.

Posted by malone9975 on 8/14/2011 12:49:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dh555 on 8/14/2011 12:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by garyman on 8/13/2011 11:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by snydpie on 8/13/2011 4:50:00 PM (view original):
I will take the 2nd best defensive C of the last 4 decades, great rebounder, shot blocker, and scorer and one of the most underrated C's of all time.
Now I have 2 two great C's who can both defend PF's.

Patrick Ewing 

"the 2nd best defensive C of the last 4 decades"

Fail.

wasnt even the best defensive center from georgetown

he was top 3...lol

Ewing manned up on Dream in the finals without any help pretty much the whole series and more than held his own. Ewing didn't get dominated like Robinson did and yet the foolishness of disrespect for Ewing continues. The C's you guys named better than Ewing defensively were all overrated except for Deke. Robinson's a$$ whipping from Dream lets me know the lack of knowledge on this forum since you guys named him as a better defensive player than Ewing! What a JOKE! Ewing never got embarrassed like Robinson did ever.

I could've taken Rodman but I wanted Ewing cuz you can't double off him cuz he can knock down the jumper or dunk all night. He could finish around the rim unlike Rodman who missed layups and couldn't shoot! He was a great rebounder and defensive player but I liked Ewing better for what I'm ultimately looking for. I will have 5 guys who can score so you will have to pick your poison. Being a Pistons fan I was always a huge Rodman fan but Ewing was simply a better player.

Posted by snydpie on 8/14/2011 4:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by malone9975 on 8/14/2011 12:49:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dh555 on 8/14/2011 12:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by garyman on 8/13/2011 11:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by snydpie on 8/13/2011 4:50:00 PM (view original):
I will take the 2nd best defensive C of the last 4 decades, great rebounder, shot blocker, and scorer and one of the most underrated C's of all time.
Now I have 2 two great C's who can both defend PF's.

Patrick Ewing 

"the 2nd best defensive C of the last 4 decades"

Fail.

wasnt even the best defensive center from georgetown

he was top 3...lol

Ewing manned up on Dream in the finals without any help pretty much the whole series and more than held his own. Ewing didn't get dominated like Robinson did and yet the foolishness of disrespect for Ewing continues. The C's you guys named better than Ewing defensively were all overrated except for Deke. Robinson's a$$ whipping from Dream lets me know the lack of knowledge on this forum since you guys named him as a better defensive player than Ewing! What a JOKE! Ewing never got embarrassed like Robinson did ever.

I could've taken Rodman but I wanted Ewing cuz you can't double off him cuz he can knock down the jumper or dunk all night. He could finish around the rim unlike Rodman who missed layups and couldn't shoot! He was a great rebounder and defensive player but I liked Ewing better for what I'm ultimately looking for. I will have 5 guys who can score so you will have to pick your poison. Being a Pistons fan I was always a huge Rodman fan but Ewing was simply a better player.

I guess the NBA was stupid like us too since Robinson won DPOY once and Ewing never did better than tie for fifth twice in DPOY voting.

Don't have time now to explain 07-09 Chris Paul

Posted by malone9975 on 8/14/2011 5:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by snydpie on 8/14/2011 4:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by malone9975 on 8/14/2011 12:49:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dh555 on 8/14/2011 12:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by garyman on 8/13/2011 11:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by snydpie on 8/13/2011 4:50:00 PM (view original):
I will take the 2nd best defensive C of the last 4 decades, great rebounder, shot blocker, and scorer and one of the most underrated C's of all time.
Now I have 2 two great C's who can both defend PF's.

Patrick Ewing 

"the 2nd best defensive C of the last 4 decades"

Fail.

wasnt even the best defensive center from georgetown

he was top 3...lol

Ewing manned up on Dream in the finals without any help pretty much the whole series and more than held his own. Ewing didn't get dominated like Robinson did and yet the foolishness of disrespect for Ewing continues. The C's you guys named better than Ewing defensively were all overrated except for Deke. Robinson's a$$ whipping from Dream lets me know the lack of knowledge on this forum since you guys named him as a better defensive player than Ewing! What a JOKE! Ewing never got embarrassed like Robinson did ever.

I could've taken Rodman but I wanted Ewing cuz you can't double off him cuz he can knock down the jumper or dunk all night. He could finish around the rim unlike Rodman who missed layups and couldn't shoot! He was a great rebounder and defensive player but I liked Ewing better for what I'm ultimately looking for. I will have 5 guys who can score so you will have to pick your poison. Being a Pistons fan I was always a huge Rodman fan but Ewing was simply a better player.

I guess the NBA was stupid like us too since Robinson won DPOY once and Ewing never did better than tie for fifth twice in DPOY voting.

Yup Dream should've won!

www.youtube.com/watch

Everybody gets made the fool sometimes.  Doesn't mean they're bad.

Dirk Nowitzki

I'm gonna need the championship version, the Dirk who doesn't get rattled anymore and is super clutch. He's gonna be the guy to close out games for this team, automatic from the line and can hit a game winner from anywhere. Yes, the defense and rebounding(probably not as bad as wis suggests btw) are certainly sub par for this league but he has a great shot-blocker behind him in Wilt and plenty of help on the boards from Baylor. But this pick was all about the offense. Dirk is the greatest shooting pf ever. That shouldn't even be up for debate. With his ability to stretch the floor, Wilt and Baylor will have room to operate inside without worrying about the Ewing's and Duncan's coming over to help. Dirk gives me a big to play the pick and pop game with(probably the best ever at that as well) and Wilt should be able to find him in the post offense for short mid range jumpers that Dirk never seems to miss.

Posted by dh555 on 8/14/2011 5:54:00 PM (view original):
Dirk Nowitzki

I'm gonna need the championship version, the Dirk who doesn't get rattled anymore and is super clutch. He's gonna be the guy to close out games for this team, automatic from the line and can hit a game winner from anywhere. Yes, the defense and rebounding(probably not as bad as wis suggests btw) are certainly sub par for this league but he has a great shot-blocker behind him in Wilt and plenty of help on the boards from Baylor. But this pick was all about the offense. Dirk is the greatest shooting pf ever. That shouldn't even be up for debate. With his ability to stretch the floor, Wilt and Baylor will have room to operate inside without worrying about the Ewing's and Duncan's coming over to help. Dirk gives me a big to play the pick and pop game with(probably the best ever at that as well) and Wilt should be able to find him in the post offense for short mid range jumpers that Dirk never seems to miss.

It's gonna be hard for Dirk to finish games if he fouls out vs such great talent. Love Dirk don't love the pick. I'm surprised at the order players are being taken, especially the last two picks. Paul is being picked over some great PG's with few great seasons. Dirk really is gonna struggle to defend these bigs and struggle to keep them off the boards!

I love both of these guys games but they aren't 3rd round material! 

Posted by ashamael on 8/14/2011 5:41:00 PM (view original):
www.youtube.com/watch

Everybody gets made the fool sometimes.  Doesn't mean they're bad.

LMFAO, that was one play not a whole game. Obviously Dream was expecting KJ to pass the ball or he would 've threw that one in the 10th row. Let's see the one where Dream runs down I do believe it was KJ in the open court and embarrasses him with an amazing blocked shot! KJ was a great player 4 sure with amazing speed and athletecism like Dream! 

I think talent wise and need wise dirk is a fine pick.