Posted by gillispie on 11/1/2022 1:41:00 PM (view original):
well ****. i DO think it is very important for it to come out, if any of these folks did run this by CS and CS ignored it. i mentioned that possibility really early on as something we'd definitely want to know about... and i stand by that. but its awfully hard for me to say *anything* in support of *anything* doogan said, now that he acknowledged using the exploit himself.

i will say this, however. this has been going on for 3 years, apparently (probably this has been around since 3.0 came out?). exploits this serious have existed at all points in HD. that's doesn't make it ok, but it DOES mean that as a community, we need to take a long term view here. we need to push for a strong institutional response to cheating, from CS. this is what i've been saying the whole time - we need CS to investigate and deliberate, that is what is required for a strong, long-term response to cheating. pushing for snap judgements from them and shooting down calls to investigate, is antithetical to that. frankly, all of you guys pushing for snap judgements, shouting down any questions on the merits or calls to investigate, you are undermining the long term anti-cheating effort.

anyway, one of the key structural, systemic problems here is that CS tends to pay 0 attention to cheating 364 days a year, and the 1 is when people start raging about it. the solution isn't to just rage about it when issues come up, but to push for a strong institutional response to cheating in general. it would TOTALLY be in character for CS to have heard about this two or three times and to have fluffed it off. or to have not explicitly condemned it. maybe that happened, maybe it didn't - i simply do not know. but the point is, neither do any of you, and we should REALLY care about whether that happened or not. because end of the day, there will always be another cheater. we should prosecute them, yes, but we cannot ignore the system. the system fails because the system is 100% reactive. we can't remedy that by also blowing in like a hurricane one day and then ignoring the issue the other 364 days of the year.

so... did CS get informed of this, and fluff it off? i think that is very important. i am definitely curious to hear any evidence that suggests they did. even though it does not make it OK for others to abuse this exploit and even though i am not trying to defend cheating here!

Gil, I normally don’t put myself through the pain of reading your long posts but when I do, like this one, you give me something of value.

The ends are what we must keep in mind through the rest of this process. We want a better product that gives us a fair playing field for a game we love.

And this is all part of the process. How many more users are now aware that there are cheaters on this site? Before this one, I guarantee there were some who had a Pollyanna view of the HD universe. With this ongoing discussion, we are sending a message to those who would even consider cheating, that the community will not tolerate you if you are found out.

" I guess this is where the inferior coaches attribute all of their failures to being cheated"

have you looked at the people responding? Piman, Gil, topdogg.. Some of the best in the game. Im pretty sure they dont need any help winning.

Oh and I'm not so shabby myself

Posted by Benis on 11/1/2022 1:50:00 PM (view original):
" I guess this is where the inferior coaches attribute all of their failures to being cheated"

have you looked at the people responding? Piman, Gil, topdogg.. Some of the best in the game. Im pretty sure they dont need any help winning.

Oh and I'm not so shabby myself

Of those 3, only Topdogg has his pitchforks out. And he was weird with me in another world so I'm not surprised.

Posted by almersk on 11/1/2022 1:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 11/1/2022 1:50:00 PM (view original):
" I guess this is where the inferior coaches attribute all of their failures to being cheated"

have you looked at the people responding? Piman, Gil, topdogg.. Some of the best in the game. Im pretty sure they dont need any help winning.

Oh and I'm not so shabby myself

Of those 3, only Topdogg has his pitchforks out. And he was weird with me in another world so I'm not surprised.

Yeah, I don't understand why he needs to rub your shoulders when he talks HD. But I don't mind

Hey *I* piped up, and I'm definitely inferior but I'll take my lumps.

Posted by Benis on 11/1/2022 1:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by almersk on 11/1/2022 1:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 11/1/2022 1:50:00 PM (view original):
" I guess this is where the inferior coaches attribute all of their failures to being cheated"

have you looked at the people responding? Piman, Gil, topdogg.. Some of the best in the game. Im pretty sure they dont need any help winning.

Oh and I'm not so shabby myself

Of those 3, only Topdogg has his pitchforks out. And he was weird with me in another world so I'm not surprised.

Yeah, I don't understand why he needs to rub your shoulders when he talks HD. But I don't mind

Huh? Ok so now you’re being weird too?

By the sounds of it, I am willing to bet this is something that was shared in a group or individually and many of the users didn't happen upon this cheat. Maybe Swenske and others can start to show their repentance by outing the people who were told about the cheat or told them about the cheat and sharing it here on the forum. Let's see a list.

If you don't believe it is a cheat and you used it then feel free to add your name to the list:

Posted by almersk on 11/1/2022 1:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 11/1/2022 1:50:00 PM (view original):
" I guess this is where the inferior coaches attribute all of their failures to being cheated"

have you looked at the people responding? Piman, Gil, topdogg.. Some of the best in the game. Im pretty sure they dont need any help winning.

Oh and I'm not so shabby myself

Of those 3, only Topdogg has his pitchforks out. And he was weird with me in another world so I'm not surprised.

Add me to your pitchfork list. Lol

Posted by ftbeaglesfan on 11/1/2022 2:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by almersk on 11/1/2022 1:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 11/1/2022 1:50:00 PM (view original):
" I guess this is where the inferior coaches attribute all of their failures to being cheated"

have you looked at the people responding? Piman, Gil, topdogg.. Some of the best in the game. Im pretty sure they dont need any help winning.

Oh and I'm not so shabby myself

Of those 3, only Topdogg has his pitchforks out. And he was weird with me in another world so I'm not surprised.

Add me to your pitchfork list. Lol

Ditto

Posted by almersk on 11/1/2022 1:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 11/1/2022 1:50:00 PM (view original):
" I guess this is where the inferior coaches attribute all of their failures to being cheated"

have you looked at the people responding? Piman, Gil, topdogg.. Some of the best in the game. Im pretty sure they dont need any help winning.

Oh and I'm not so shabby myself

Of those 3, only Topdogg has his pitchforks out. And he was weird with me in another world so I'm not surprised.

If “being weird with you” is how you view it, that’s fine. I view it as game integrity. The reason I was weird with you is because we were both targeting two separate players, and you sent me a sitemail directly asking me which of the two I wanted more, so you could back off one and expected me to back off the other. I told you I wanted no part of that.

in the end, you actually won both recruits on rolls. Kudos. You won the players. I kept my HD pride.

I’m glad you posted tho. In my previous post I mentioned a coach from the Smith A10 doing weird things. It was actually you. So I’m assuming you spoke up once you read it, knowing that you was who I was referring to. It ain’t personal. Just the facts of the past. For the record, you weren’t crappy with me when I said I wanted no part of it. So I respect that. But it was definitely an awkward moment for me. Pitchforks and all

What do the defenders of Swenske have in common? Think, think, think…

Posted by topdogggbm on 11/1/2022 2:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by almersk on 11/1/2022 1:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 11/1/2022 1:50:00 PM (view original):
" I guess this is where the inferior coaches attribute all of their failures to being cheated"

have you looked at the people responding? Piman, Gil, topdogg.. Some of the best in the game. Im pretty sure they dont need any help winning.

Oh and I'm not so shabby myself

Of those 3, only Topdogg has his pitchforks out. And he was weird with me in another world so I'm not surprised.

If “being weird with you” is how you view it, that’s fine. I view it as game integrity. The reason I was weird with you is because we were both targeting two separate players, and you sent me a sitemail directly asking me which of the two I wanted more, so you could back off one and expected me to back off the other. I told you I wanted no part of that.

in the end, you actually won both recruits on rolls. Kudos. You won the players. I kept my HD pride.

I’m glad you posted tho. In my previous post I mentioned a coach from the Smith A10 doing weird things. It was actually you. So I’m assuming you spoke up once you read it, knowing that you was who I was referring to. It ain’t personal. Just the facts of the past. For the record, you weren’t crappy with me when I said I wanted no part of it. So I respect that. But it was definitely an awkward moment for me. Pitchforks and all

Almersk - this considered collusion. Which is definitely against the rules.

Ay yi yi

This gets better and better

This was years ago. So I’m not intentional pitchforking. I’d like to think that put the thought in his mind that it’s not a good idea to do so. I’ve kept that under my hat for years. I never intended to even talk about it. But I wanted to explain why I was “weird”

Posted by topdogggbm on 11/1/2022 2:29:00 PM (view original):
This was years ago. So I’m not intentional pitchforking. I’d like to think that put the thought in his mind that it’s not a good idea to do so. I’ve kept that under my hat for years. I never intended to even talk about it. But I wanted to explain why I was “weird”

I was new to the game and you threatened to report me. I thought that was weird. Yeah, I never did it again. If you can find someone who says I have, I'll rub your shoulders haha.

Serious question: are you able to post on the forums if your account is suspended?