rails, the trouble is everyone has a couple of things that bug them about the game, I think a fairly vocal minority has seble on a path, that is not going to impact the number of particiapants at all, and is founded on forum fact as much as fact. Unfortunately, I don't have much of an idea how to impact the number of users either, nor do I think yours will.

For a while, I emailed each of the long term coaches who quit, a large number quit because the engine quit working when FSS was implemented, but a suprising number mentioned how much longer it took to recruit with potential, and the game was pushing the time limit they had available anyhow.

The vocal minority wants this game to get far more complex in order to get more accurate sims, and seble has listened. The truth is, more complex is not the answer, and the game results are pretty close to real life, especially considering the engine has not been touched for over a year.

I would not term anything they do as a deal breaker for me, but I will say, I am trying to enjoy the game as much as I can right now, as I do not look forward to the update at all.

I use the term sim city HD to describe functions like delimna's & hiring assistant coaches and matching recruits favorite shirt color to his favorite school, pretty soon we will be able to hire the cheerleaders and build new practice facilities - all wrong directions if you ask me.

" ....wants this game to get far more complex "

OR, i havent been foollowing stuff that close... maybe i missed it... who wants the game to get far more complex? and what does that mean exactly?

Quote: Originally Posted By dacj501 on 11/19/2009

Quote: Originally posted by porkpower on 11/19/2009 Yes EE's only affect a small percentage of users, BUT they affect the small % of users who spend the most money on HD and should be taken more seriously then the average second season D3 coach.

bullshit. Your money is more valuable than mine

dac, think about this, guys like Porkie have spent a couple of thousand dollars on HD. i think that it is not out of line to expect that his opinion counts for just a little more than the average bear.

I guess I am wondering the same thing ole d, I know I have been for the new recruit engine, I remember when I started playing I had the ability to recruit guys and build the players the way I want, I could recruit only bigs with 20+ per and have a very good team where all my bigs could hit the outside shot. It was something that very few coaches did and I really felt it made my teams much better. I do not view diversifying the recruiting field as making the game more complex.

Quote: Originally posted by dacj501 on 11/19/2009

Quote: Originally posted by porkpower on 11/19/2009Yes EE's only affect a small percentage of users, BUT they affect the small % of users who spend the most money on HD and should be taken more seriously then the average second season D3 coach.

bullshit. Your money is more valuable than mine?

Pork never said his money was more valuable then yours, only that the vets that have been around the game a lot longer have spent a lot more money on WIS then the newer coaches. Yes he is saying his $1000 is worth more then your $200, that is just simple numbers.

Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 11/19/2009I guess I am wondering the same thing ole d, I know I have been for the new recruit engine, I remember when I started playing I had the ability to recruit guys and build the players the way I want, I could recruit only bigs with 20+ per and have a very good team where all my bigs could hit the outside shot. It was something that very few coaches did and I really felt it made my teams much better. I do not view diversifying the recruiting field as making the game more complex

okay, yeah, thats what i thought was being pushed for by the vocal minority.

....and related to that a way to diffrentiate between the 23 different kids in each bigconference who are 90/90/90 etc.

Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 11/19/2009

Quote: Originally posted by dacj501 on 11/19/2009

Quote: Originally posted by porkpower on 11/19/2009Yes EE's only affect a small percentage of users, BUT they affect the small % of users who spend the most money on HD and should be taken more seriously then the average second season D3 coach.

bullshit. Your money is more valuable than mine?

Pork never said his money was more valuable then yours, only that the vets that have been around the game a lot longer have spent a lot more money on WIS then the newer coaches. Yes he is saying his $1000 is worth more then your $200, that is just simple numbers

2 problems with this logic:

1) pork has already spent that money, and every dollar they can spend from here on out counts the same.

2) pork isn't quitting, and neither are very many of the vets who are still here, especially over this issue.

seble is right-- this is important to deal with, but can (and should) wait until they get the new engine up and running.

Quote: Originally Posted By porkpower on 11/19/2009Yes EE's only affect a small percentage of users, BUT they affect the small % of users who spend the most money on HD and should be taken more seriously then the average second season D3 coach

but pork's logic was better than z's. :) this statement has a lot of truth to it.

This post could not be converted. To view the original post's thread, click here.

I agree (from what I have read, I admittedly do not have any D I experience) that it would be potentially devastating to lose what you thought was going to be a championship caliber team to EE.

I don't know the numbers, but as wronoj pointed out whatever money was spent in the past is in the past, and not really applicable to the equation going forward. I have 3 teams on HD, I don't know how many pork has. I know that my reward point opportunities at D II and D III feature a smaller payout due to the drop off the more appearances I make vs D I reward points, so it is possible that going forward I will spend more money than he will.

I do want the EE issue addressed (and, Seble seems to indicate that it will be), but I am in favor of the other issues being addressed first, as Seble and co. seem to be attempting.

I acknowledge that pork and the other long timers have spent more than I have to date, I can't do anything about that. I discovered the site when I discovered it, and short of time travel I can't change that. I do think that my money and enjoyment of the game going forward are just as important as any other coach's.

Quote: Originally Posted By oldave on 11/19/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 11/19/2009
I guess I am wondering the same thing ole d, I know I have been for the new recruit engine, I remember when I started playing I had the ability to recruit guys and build the players the way I want, I could recruit only bigs with 20+ per and have a very good team where all my bigs could hit the outside shot. It was something that very few coaches did and I really felt it made my teams much better. I do not view diversifying the recruiting field as making the game more complex.

okay, yeah, thats what i thought was being pushed for by the vocal minority.

....and related to that a way to diffrentiate between the 23 different kids in each bigconference who are 90/90/90 etc.

diversifying the d1 recruits as complex, geez, that takes about 5 minutes, does not require a new engine, code goes something like search and replace for old d1 rating with old d1 rating * .85, replace all, save as HD 4.0

differences in real d1 is players are subtle, same as HD is

if all the players in the current game are the same, why do some coaches win more often? answer, because they manage those subtle differences better, d2 & d3 the differences in core skills are stark, d1 core skills, not so much, HD or real world

as far as complex, do any of you really think the game is not going that way in terms of gameplanning and matchups? starting at sf, shaq oneil, starting at pf, chris paul, seriously .... that is what you guys are asking for, and apparently ... getting

OR are you meaning you don't like the idea of being able to set up individual player matchups for your D? or things like that?

I completely agree with you that making the game more complex, for the sake of making it more complex is not a good idea - I would also like to say I am open to every new idea for HD, as I do think the game does need to grow. That said I do not want a game that not only do i pay 13$ / season for but also have to spend 3 hours game planning every single day.

im lost

i think i am part of the vocal minority...

only because i have made my thoughts known and the changes that are forthcoming seem to like they may address some of my concerns. i dont feel like i am part of any group. let alone a group that has management's ear, but, it seems like if there is a vminor, i must be part of it.

so, lets assume i am part of the vminor

okay... OR's first sentence.. I am not trying to gammar king or whatever (lord knows i am one of the worst offenders) but i am not quite sure what OR is saying

diversifying the d1 recruits as complex, geez, that takes about 5 minutes, does not require a new engine, code goes something like search and replace for old d1 rating with old d1 rating * .85, replace all, save as HD 4.0

do you mean "is" instead of "as" (5th word)? if so, then i assume this is sarcasm and you are saying that diversifying the recuiting base is not complex? (but i thought you were saying our requests were too complex?) so, you lost me there, right off the bat

differences in real d1 is players are subtle, same as HD is

hmmm. i dunno, i suppose i can agree with that to some degree. but i just think that in real life sometimes you have two or three kids that are just head and shoulders above the rest of the ncaa in one skill area. for instance : beasley was , by nearly unanimous acclaim, the best rebounder in the nation when he was at Kstate. maybe there are a couple of kids that i am not thinking of that were nearly as good, but aside from that, there clearly was a big dropoff. but, in HD you dont see a dominant rebounder, because every halfway decent team has two or three kids that are 99RE and decent ath. and i am not saying we should mimic real life just for the sake of doing that.... I also think it increases strategy to have a more clear diversification of players.

if all the players in the current game are the same, why do some coaches win more often? answer, because they manage those subtle differences better, d2 & d3 the differences in core skills are stark, d1 core skills, not so much, HD or real world

i see what you are getting at. and i guess i agree up to a point. but there is a difference between subtle differences and clones. also, i might argue that the coaches that win are the ones that get 8 maxed out players instead of 4.

as far as complex, do any of you really think the game is not going that way in terms of gameplanning and matchups? starting at sf, shaq oneil, starting at pf, chris paul, seriously .... that is what you guys are asking for, and apparently ... getting

you lost me again here, OR... seems like you are, ... what do they call it? ... setting up a straw man? i know that *i * am not asking for absurd lineups as you suggest, and i really dont think anyone else is either. and i think you know that. (actually , shaq at SF is the current game with RE gone wild and everyone has three shaqs and doesnt knwo what to do with all of them and so sometimes they sitck one of them at SF))(as for paul, i dont want to play him at PF, i just want to be able to reasonably use all the unique skills that he has and if that means he is able to post up his defender sometimes... great) .

what has puzzled me a little is that you seem really ****** off at someone or something... the vminor i guess... but im not really sure why. my best guess would be that you think a small group of users have persuaded management to set HD onto a new course. and you feel this new direction will prove disasterous and eventually ruin a game than you love. is that it? if so, i guess i understand your passion even if i disagree with your stance.

anyways, hope some of that made sense.

hope you are right Oldave, seble did fix the FSS fiasco pretty well, even thought it took very long for him to react.

the guys in the so-called vocal minority, are the best coaches in this game, and the ones I enjoy the most. But, I told myself when FSS was implemented so poorly initially, that I was going to forum post before the next change, not after, with my concerns, which I now am doing.

I hope I stay true to this (though not guaranteeing it), once the d3 game is installed into d1 ratings, and 6th grade Y ball matchup are in place), I will simply accept the change for what it is worth, adjust accordingly, and play it as it lies, so to speak.

What HD needs most in this change, is one that does not infuriate 25% of the current users so much that they quit, unless it can deliver a whole lot of new users,

I just am not sure engine changes (or worse, non engine changes) are going to deliver new users at a rate anywhere near the rate of guys leaving as result of said changes.