Selig should grow some balls... Topic

bosoxbill
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Oh, I see. As long as Bud doesn't outright kill the game, everything is just fine.

I blame myself. I knew you were an idiot when I started talking to you.
6/8/2010 1:32 PM
Jtpsops
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Take it easy, bipolarbill. You're starting to sound like primate. If you're so convinced you're right, why are you getting all defensive and throwing a hissy fit?
6/8/2010 1:37 PM
sergei91
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Quote: Originally Posted By bosoxbill on 6/07/2010
Quote: Originally posted by MikeT23 on 6/07/2010
It's not the objective of the game. So, if that's true, and you don't seem to be disputing it, are you an advocate of reversing the umpire's judgement so we can have a Happy Day?

Because, if that's it, that's pretty stupid.

I am an advocate of reversing any and all calls which should have ended games, but did not. And only when there's clear video evidence that the call was blown.

I am an advocate for this when it would provide a "happy day" AND for when it would provide someone with a "frowny day."

Not because the "happy days" and "frowny days" are important, but because being right is important, and these situations are a chance to be right WITHOUT COST.

Unlike with, say, a call which ends a game but should not have. Where things can not be remedied without a time machine or other stupid unrealistic crap.

Seriously: it's been a while, Mike. It needs to be "happy day" and "frowny day" or you can't follow the discussion? I mean, you were always stupid, but I don't remember having to use second-grader language to communicate with you


would this particular game (and reversing the call) matter to you if it was not a perfect game in the making?
6/8/2010 1:38 PM
bosoxbill
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If I'm wrong, tell me how.

Don't waste your time on unconvincing characterization of my posts as a "hissy fit."

Of course, I'm not wrong, so you can't tell me how. So I guess characterizing my posts, and me, is about as good as you can do. So please, by all means, continue.
6/8/2010 1:40 PM
bosoxbill
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6/8/2010 1:44 PM
sergei91
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Quote: Originally Posted By Jtpsops on 6/08/2010Any time I get tired of Bud, I just look over at Gary Bettman and see how bad things could really be


agreed 20000000000000000000000000000000000000000%
6/8/2010 1:45 PM
bosoxbill
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If you guys are happy with Selig only having to clear that very low bar, I'm very happy for you.
6/8/2010 1:47 PM
sergei91
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Quote: Originally Posted By bosoxbill on 6/08/2010
Quote: Originally posted by sergei91 on 6/08/2010
would this particular game (and reversing the call) matter to you if it was not a perfect game in the making?


I believe I already answered this. I don't think I would have realized what an easy fix was available for situations like this, no.

It takes big stories like this to make people consider stuff, sometimes. That's just human nature.

Big stories like this also frequently get used as justification for change. I'm pretty sure the game is going to change as a result of this story. And I think it'll either be something tight and limited, like my rule, or something loose and sloppy - like selig expanding replay (and also like Mike's mom

so what are you most discouraged by?

the incorrect end of an (any) mlb game?

the loss of a perfect game?

jim joyce crying on national tv?

bud selig is in charge of fixing (or not) the incorrect call?

life in general?
6/8/2010 1:47 PM
bosoxbill
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The only things that annoy me are:

The loss of the perfect game - though this it tempered by the idea that you could have had the same call in the 7th inning and nothing could be done (or at least: I'm saying nothing should be done)

The idea that everything is hunky/dory with the current system - this story is not going away. Selig has announced that he's looking into more replay as a result of it.

The twin idea that broad replay is the answer. I just don't see the marriage of fallible refs and instant replay getting us anywhere useful. Unless your goal is longer broadcasts with more advertising minutes to sell, of course. If it's that important to get all the calls right, start phasing out fallible humans and start phasing in technology.

That's silly, of course... I only say it to illustrate that I don't think any of us agree that being right is so important that we have to lose the glasses-needing wank behind the plate. Bad calls are a part of baseball, and overcoming them as a team is part of the game. But that doesn't mean we can't care about bad calls.

What we need to realize is when we can be absolutely correct WITHOUT cost. Like here. No cost. Call is overturned. No dangerous precedents are set. No slippery slopes are introduced. A game ends an out sooner than we thought, and the perfect game that so many people witnessed is recognized in the books.
6/8/2010 1:56 PM
Jtpsops
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K, let me give you an analogy bill.

In hockey, one thing I absolutely hate is when the powers that be punish an injury instead of a hit. Guy A lays out a hit, his victim gets up, he gets a penalty at worst. Guy B lays out the same hit, breaks a guy's jaw, he's suspended. I don't believe the timing/result of something should dictate if it's punishable or not. It's either a suspendable offense or it isn't.

In this case...if Joyce blows that call while Galarraga has a 2-hit shutout going and he ends up with a 3-hit shutout, is there any outcry? Is anyone even CONSIDERING the possibility of overturning the call? No.

As I've said several times, I wouldn't have complained if the call was overturned, because I think Galarraga deserved that. But does that mean it's what's best for baseball? No.

It sucks, but it was an individual achievement that had no bearing on the outcome of the game.

I know this is a bit of an extreme example, but let's say come the final game of the season, Guy A and Guy B are tied for the BA title. Guy A goes 3 for 4. Guy B is 3 for 4 as well, but has a final at-bat coming up. He hits a ground ball to second base, the throw beats him to first but the ump calls him safe.

Now, what if Guy A and his team protest, saying that call wrongfully gave the BA title to Guy B, and since it was a game-ending call, it should be overturned and Guy A should rightfully get what's his. Nothing to do with the game, but it would give the individual accomplishment to the guy who deserved it. Should that call be overturned as well?

No one would ever agree on acceptable circumstances.
6/8/2010 2:20 PM
tecwrg
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Quote: Originally Posted By bosoxbill on 6/08/2010
If I'm wrong, tell me how.
How's this:

The primary goal of baseball is for the teams to try to win the game. Statistics and/or individual accomplishments are merely a by-product of the game.

Making the by-product more important than the primary goal is, well, pretty damn stupid.

Or should I use smaller words?

P.S. There is no "I" in team.
6/8/2010 2:39 PM
bosoxbill
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Quote: Originally posted by Jtpsops on 6/08/2010K, let me give you an analogy bill.

In hockey, one thing I absolutely hate is when the powers that be punish an injury instead of a hit. Guy A lays out a hit, his victim gets up, he gets a penalty at worst. Guy B lays out the same hit, breaks a guy's jaw, he's suspended. I don't believe the timing/result of something should dictate if it's punishable or not. It's either a suspendable offense or it isn't.

In this case...if Joyce blows that call while Galarraga has a 2-hit shutout going and he ends up with a 3-hit shutout, is there any outcry? Is anyone even CONSIDERING the possibility of overturning the call? No.

As I've said several times, I wouldn't have complained if the call was overturned, because I think Galarraga deserved that. But does that mean it's what's best for baseball? No.

It sucks, but it was an individual achievement that had no bearing on the outcome of the game.

I know this is a bit of an extreme example, but let's say come the final game of the season, Guy A and Guy B are tied for the BA title. Guy A goes 3 for 4. Guy B is 3 for 4 as well, but has a final at-bat coming up. He hits a ground ball to second base, the throw beats him to first but the ump calls him safe.

Now, what if Guy A and his team protest, saying that call wrongfully gave the BA title to Guy B, and since it was a game-ending call, it should be overturned and Guy A should rightfully get what's his. Nothing to do with the game, but it would give the individual accomplishment to the guy who deserved it. Should that call be overturned as well?

No one would ever agree on acceptable circumstances.

Let me get this straight... spectacularly unlikely scenarios can only be used to argue AGAINST things, and spectacularly unlikely scenarios which have actually happened can't inform our approach to problems?

At any rate, the hockey stuff is irrelevant. Entirely.

I've already said that it took this level of thing to get everyone thinking. That's reality. That's how humans work.

And in your wildly improbable scenario, yes, the call should be overturned. BECAUSE IT IS WRONG. And because getting it right is possible without replaying innings/time travel/make ups or other impossible crap.

This is why we need a tight rule - "calls which should have ended a game, but did not, can be overturned if there is compelling video evidence." - so that people don't HAVE TO AGREE ON ACCEPTABLE CIRCUMSTANCES.

The acceptable circumstances are spelled out. In the rule. Jesus, are you literate? Have you been reading a word that I've typed?
6/8/2010 2:39 PM
tecwrg
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Quote: Originally Posted By bosoxbill on 6/08/2010
This is why we need a tight rule - "calls which should have ended a game, but did not, can be overturned if there is compelling video evidence." - so that people don't HAVE TO AGREE ON ACCEPTABLE CIRCUMSTANCES.
Let's make it a little tighter by adding the phrase "on a Wednesday night in an even-numbered month in northern cities". That should really narrow it down.

Moron.
6/8/2010 2:42 PM
bosoxbill
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6/8/2010 2:44 PM
bosoxbill
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6/8/2010 2:44 PM
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Selig should grow some balls... Topic
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