What is the proper role of government in the US? Topic

swamphawk22
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I was just trying to show that your opinion on women is based purely on their political beliefs.
9/26/2011 12:10 AM
greeny9
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Posted by swamphawk22 on 9/25/2011 6:38:00 PM (view original):
Posted by nickbracco on 9/25/2011 5:00:00 PM (view original):
Could have won what? You want that dumb **** as President? How damn stupid are you?

Since I believe, and I think the evidence supports, that in fact she is not stupid, That is an irrelevant question.

What we need to examine is could she solve America's problems.

She would likely call on a cabinet with people with similar views. She would have a Bush style cabinet.

She would want less government, clear tax policies and a general across the board reduction in government interference with business.

That is exactly what America needs.

So Swamp, you want America to get out of businesses way, you mean like what the government did by nearly completely de-regulating the financial/insurance sectors which wound up bankrupting and nearly bankrupting the whole sector?  And then these businesses come crying to Uncle Sam for handouts, and thats just fine too eh?

Thats a great idea, lets de-regulate everything completely (in the States only) and see the parties that big business have.  Then watch how everybody crashes and burns because left to their own devices corporations just cant keep their collective dicks in their pants.
9/26/2011 7:33 PM
swamphawk22
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And at least the bank bailouts were cost effective.

Of coure if we had not bailed out the banks, as Conservatives recomended, we would have a self regulating system.

9/27/2011 4:01 AM
silentpadna
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Posted by greeny9 on 9/26/2011 7:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by swamphawk22 on 9/25/2011 6:38:00 PM (view original):
Posted by nickbracco on 9/25/2011 5:00:00 PM (view original):
Could have won what? You want that dumb **** as President? How damn stupid are you?

Since I believe, and I think the evidence supports, that in fact she is not stupid, That is an irrelevant question.

What we need to examine is could she solve America's problems.

She would likely call on a cabinet with people with similar views. She would have a Bush style cabinet.

She would want less government, clear tax policies and a general across the board reduction in government interference with business.

That is exactly what America needs.

So Swamp, you want America to get out of businesses way, you mean like what the government did by nearly completely de-regulating the financial/insurance sectors which wound up bankrupting and nearly bankrupting the whole sector?  And then these businesses come crying to Uncle Sam for handouts, and thats just fine too eh?

Thats a great idea, lets de-regulate everything completely (in the States only) and see the parties that big business have.  Then watch how everybody crashes and burns because left to their own devices corporations just cant keep their collective dicks in their pants.
The myth that conservatives want to remove all regulations is nonsense and categorically false.  Most want to remove bad, encumbering regulation, of which a lot, but not all, is.  The Frank-Dodd financial crap is doing more harm than good, for example.  I can tell you, from my own perspective where I work, some things I see.  Whenever a new 'regulation' comes out, we have to spend money to "investigate whether or not we are in compliance".  When the regulation is a 1000 page document, you're not talking about pennies, you're talking about real costs incurred and real costs passed down to consumers.  You're also talking about risk because with each new government regulation comes opportunity for those ready to use the legal system to exploit those who may not be in compliance.  You also have the risk of honest, but incorrect interpretation, which again, has the potential to add huge costs.  Add to that the fact that those ready to exploit a violation (like special interest law firms) may have a vested interest in seeing the regulations come to pass, and you can see that there are avenues for the regulations themselves to become the problem. 

So don't kid yourself that regulations are the cure for everything.  Obviously some need to exist.  But in the long run, a moral and ethical fiber in the populace (not the government) is the only way businesses will work in an ideal way.

Spouting off that conservatives don't want regulation is a straw-man argument.  Ain't true. 
9/27/2011 7:01 AM
antoncresten
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TRUE
9/27/2011 7:04 AM
greeny9
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Posted by silentpadna on 9/27/2011 7:01:00 AM (view original):
Posted by greeny9 on 9/26/2011 7:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by swamphawk22 on 9/25/2011 6:38:00 PM (view original):
Posted by nickbracco on 9/25/2011 5:00:00 PM (view original):
Could have won what? You want that dumb **** as President? How damn stupid are you?

Since I believe, and I think the evidence supports, that in fact she is not stupid, That is an irrelevant question.

What we need to examine is could she solve America's problems.

She would likely call on a cabinet with people with similar views. She would have a Bush style cabinet.

She would want less government, clear tax policies and a general across the board reduction in government interference with business.

That is exactly what America needs.

So Swamp, you want America to get out of businesses way, you mean like what the government did by nearly completely de-regulating the financial/insurance sectors which wound up bankrupting and nearly bankrupting the whole sector?  And then these businesses come crying to Uncle Sam for handouts, and thats just fine too eh?

Thats a great idea, lets de-regulate everything completely (in the States only) and see the parties that big business have.  Then watch how everybody crashes and burns because left to their own devices corporations just cant keep their collective dicks in their pants.
The myth that conservatives want to remove all regulations is nonsense and categorically false.  Most want to remove bad, encumbering regulation, of which a lot, but not all, is.  The Frank-Dodd financial crap is doing more harm than good, for example.  I can tell you, from my own perspective where I work, some things I see.  Whenever a new 'regulation' comes out, we have to spend money to "investigate whether or not we are in compliance".  When the regulation is a 1000 page document, you're not talking about pennies, you're talking about real costs incurred and real costs passed down to consumers.  You're also talking about risk because with each new government regulation comes opportunity for those ready to use the legal system to exploit those who may not be in compliance.  You also have the risk of honest, but incorrect interpretation, which again, has the potential to add huge costs.  Add to that the fact that those ready to exploit a violation (like special interest law firms) may have a vested interest in seeing the regulations come to pass, and you can see that there are avenues for the regulations themselves to become the problem. 

So don't kid yourself that regulations are the cure for everything.  Obviously some need to exist.  But in the long run, a moral and ethical fiber in the populace (not the government) is the only way businesses will work in an ideal way.

Spouting off that conservatives don't want regulation is a straw-man argument.  Ain't true. 
moral and ethical fiber

You really think that there is such a thing in an entity that has been described by many as being psychotic?  I refer to corporations ofcourse.  There is plenty of evidence over the years that corporations behave in the same manor as a psychotic person.  And being as legally corporations have all the same rights as a person see what Im getting at here?

I for one am not going to trust a corporation farther then I can throw one, which is obviously not at all.  Their interests and objectives fly in the face of any rational human being.  Im not saying that ALL of their interests and objectives, but enough of them that they simply cant be trusted with the welfare of the entire human species.

For that matter, when it comes down to it, I dont trust the gen pop with having very much moral and ethical fiber either.  It is quite simply a dog eat dog world out there.  And peoples actions have spoken for themselves for as long as we've been pooping indoors now.
9/27/2011 12:22 PM
silentpadna
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Nice change of direction.  You implied in your post that conservatives wan't to de-regulate everything ("Thats a great idea, lets de-regulate everything completely (in the States only) and see the parties that big business have.  Then watch....."). 

I called you out on your strawman. 

You decide to construct a new one ("they simply cant be trusted with the welfare of the entire human species") instead.  You don't trust corporations as far as you can throw them, but you, your family, and your government depend on them every day.  You don't have roads because the government wants them.  You have roads because the government wants them and there are corporations capable of building them efficiently.  You don't have defense because the government wants it.  You have defense because your government wants it and there are corporations capable of serving that need efficiently.  You don't have abundant anything without the means to have that anything delivered efficiently by people (many of whom incorporate) who are capable of filling the market need. 

Conservatives don't trust the welfare of the human species to corporations.  They simply believe in free market principles.  When government gets in the way of that, you have economies that can't get out of their own way trying to grow.  Regulation needed?  Of course.  Conservatives want none?  Hardly.  Even the Constitution here provides power for the government to regulate.

You would go a lot further in a rational discussion of you didn't assume another's point of view.

 

So you have an irrational hate for corporations?  Good on ya.  Don't use them for anything.  See how far that takes you.  I don't imagine I'd see another post from you if you did considering your computer is built by a corporation (if not, then I'm sure the electronics on the inside are built by a corporation), the cord and plug are built by a corporation, your monitor (if it's separate) is built by a corporation, the shipping company that distributed it to your place or purchase is likely a corporation, the company that built your bicycle  is probably a corporation, the company that provided tires for your bicycle is probably a corporation, the maker of the light in your room is probably a corporation, the message boards you post on are provided by a corporation - all them with people at many different levels using talents to better themselves and their families.

Do some corporations behave psychotically?  Can't argue that.  Does that mean we shouldn't have any?  If so, make your point.

If you can cite a (real mainstream) conservative that believes in zero regulation of any kind, you're welcome to show you have a clue what you're talking about.

9/27/2011 12:46 PM
rcrusso
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padna...................SHOVE IT UP YOUR DUPA
9/27/2011 12:50 PM
antoncresten
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STUART VARNEY
ERIC BOLLING
NEIL CAVUTO
STEPHEN MOORE
ROGER AILES
GROVER NORQUIST

ETC ETC ETC

THEY WON'T SAY ZERO, BUT THEY BELIEVE IT

THEY DONT WANT TO BLAMED FOR THE DISASTER THAT WOULD FOLLOW, BUT THEY BELIEVE IT
9/27/2011 12:55 PM
MikeT23
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I don't think corporations have the well-being of the entire human population on their minds.   Nor should it be.   However, when corporations cross a line that the entire human population, or at least a sizable number, finds objectionable, something can be done.  Hit them in their wallet.   I personally put a hurtin' on Bank of America and Ford.   Well, not really, but I don't do business with either.   If people would live their convictions, rather than post them on a message board, people could make a difference. 
9/27/2011 12:56 PM
silentpadna
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nice contribution there russo
9/27/2011 1:01 PM
swamphawk22
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Posted by rcrusso on 9/27/2011 12:50:00 PM (view original):
padna...................SHOVE IT UP YOUR DUPA
Your Polish??
9/27/2011 1:02 PM
rcrusso
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On my mother's side, her mother was polish and her father Italian. And my post was an attempt to lighten things up.
9/27/2011 1:35 PM
MikeT23
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I find it funny that people seem to think corporations should care about the well-being of people and create jobs.    Corporations are created to make money.   Even the "green" corporations are designed to make money.   What they do beyond that is secondary.   That moral and ethical compass is for individuals.   The individuals who work at the company("I need you to kills that Senator as he's attempting to pass legislature that will hurt our bottom line"/"No, that's not right") or people who utilize the corporation's product("We only kill the freshest puppies to put in our cat food"/"No, that's not right").   A business has no obligation to you.
9/27/2011 1:59 PM
silentpadna
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I also find it funny that government on one hand will give a "tax break" to companies to hire someone and then increase their taxes at the same time....nice plan that jobs "plan".

Of course that assumes that companies will hire someone because of the tax break in lieu of an actual need for help.
9/27/2011 2:02 PM
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