**READ** Home Field Advantage! Topic

blackmamba22
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i think this...in order to get any type of homefield advantage which besides travel effects, is only real when FANS root for or against a team, admin would first have to create an attendence feature into the game based on teams performance(s). The better a team is playing, the more attendance, the better "%" or whatever hfa they would EARN. just a little thought.
7/22/2009 9:51 PM
tecwrg
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In the spirit of "full disclosure", I quickly ran through all MLB post-season games played over the past 10 years (1999-2008). The home team was 179-144, or .554.

But again, I'll pose the question: is this because they had an inherent HFA, or because they were the better team?
7/22/2009 9:52 PM
blackmamba22
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and actually it would be even cooler to base budgets on income from attendance, but that would be an amazingly deep feature!
7/22/2009 9:52 PM
tecwrg
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Quote: Originally Posted By blackmamba22 on 7/22/2009
and actually it would be even cooler to base budgets on income from attendance, but that would be an amazingly deep feature!
Horrible idea. If a team gets mismanaged for a number of seasons and fake-fan attendance flounders, how will a lower budget help the situation?

If that owner the world, who would want to come in and take over a pathetic team constrained to a smaller budget than everybody else?

In the end, the rich would get richer and the poor would get poorer. Which is pretty much one definition of a 'tard world.
7/22/2009 10:00 PM
blackmamba22
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Quote: Originally Posted By tecwrg on 7/22/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By blackmamba22 on 7/22/2009
and actually it would be even cooler to base budgets on income from attendance, but that would be an amazingly deep feature!
Horrible idea. If a team gets mismanaged for a number of seasons and fake-fan attendance flounders, how will a lower budget help the situation?

If that owner the world, who would want to come in and take over a pathetic team constrained to a smaller budget than everybody else?

In the end, the rich would get richer and the poor would get poorer. Which is pretty much one definition of a 'tard world.

yeah true...i guess im get stuck in the Xbox world too much. Point made tec...how bout the attendance influencing the home field advantage via team performance on a season to season basis idea?
7/22/2009 10:15 PM
tecwrg
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If you'll read back through this thread, you'll see that I'm not in favor of making any changes for a HFA.

You want an advantage over the other team . . . build a better team than theirs.
7/22/2009 10:51 PM
blackmamba22
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i dont really think i care either way, just merely thinking out loud.
7/22/2009 11:00 PM
swamphawk22
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Quote: Originally Posted By tecwrg on 7/22/2009
If you'll read back through this thread, you'll see that I'm not in favor of making any changes for a HFA.

You want an advantage over the other team . . . build a better team than theirs.

I want to ask you directly. Since this isnt actually and advantage, all teams would get it, how can you maintain your position.

I understand that some people have reservations about how it would be implemented, I can understand these fears.

Froma strictly theoretical standpoint, how can you oppose bringing some reality to the game in a simple way that would not make our lives tougher (Rule 5 draft).
7/23/2009 11:06 AM
98greenc5
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Quote: Originally Posted By swamphawk22 on 7/23/2009I want to ask you directly. Since this isnt actually and advantage, all teams would get it
so you are saying that your HFA idea isn't really "changing" anything because any HFA you get is offset by the HFA you give for all your road games?

if so, why change the engine if it doesn't really "do" anything, apart from arbitrarily (although through some intricate tweaking of the mechanics of the engine) shifting some road wins to being home wins?
7/23/2009 11:15 AM
hurricane384
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I think HFA has to be a case of playability over realism, don't most of you think that way too?

There would have to be a different homefield advantage each game. The Nationals don't get the same homefield advantages as the Cubs or Yankees or Red Sox. I've been to Reds games where Cubs fans outnumber Reds fans 2-to-1, easily. How do you simulate that? How do you simulate September home games for contenders versus non-contenders? Do teams who are bad get a negative home-field advantage?

When something is so fluid throughout a 162 game season, there is no way, nor is there a reason to implement it.

To me, and this is just my opinion, while home field advantage is a neat idea on the surface, the way people want to implement it is just stupid. The only proper way to implement it is just stupid and will take so much time to code that it's not worth it to implement.

By the way, Rule 5 was conforming to the rules of MLB...there is no rule in MLB saying a team has to have HFA.

Also, the 1999 Reds were 45-37 at home and 50-31 on the road.
2002 Reds were 38-43 at home and 40-41 on the road.
7/23/2009 11:36 AM
tecwrg2
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Quote: Originally Posted By 98greenc5 on 7/23/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By swamphawk22 on 7/23/2009
I want to ask you directly. Since this isnt actually and advantage, all teams would get it,
so you are saying that your HFA idea isn't really "changing" anything because any HFA you get is offset by the HFA you give for all your road games?

if so, why change the engine if it doesn't really "do" anything, apart from arbitrarily (although through some intricate tweaking of the mechanics of the engine) shifting some road wins to being home wins?

What green said. What value does it add, if all teams get it equally and it all evens out in the end?

The risk of making changes to the game engine to programatically simulate an unquantifiable concept is that it can have unintended adverse effects to game play. The effects may be so subtle (because the impact of HFA, by it's nature, is subtle), that it may not be readily apparent. Did I lose Game 7 of the ALCS because I was outplayed, or was there some "flaw" in the HFA code that caused me to lose in the bottom of the ninth? It should be pretty clear why that's not a good thing

The supposed reward, which is that all teams get HFA equally, isn't really a reward at all. It's a net change in value to the game of zero. It's not clear to me or others why that's a good thing worth pursuing.
7/23/2009 12:18 PM
snake_p
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Quote: Originally Posted By hurricane384 on 7/23/2009I think HFA has to be a case of playability over realism, don't most of you think that way too? [unequivocally]There would have to be a different homefield advantage each game. The Nationals don't get the same homefield advantages as the Cubs or Yankees or Red Sox. I've been to Reds games where Cubs fans outnumber Reds fans 2-to-1, easily. How do you simulate that? How do you simulate September home games for contenders versus non-contenders? Do teams who are bad get a negative home-field advantage?

When something is so fluid throughout a 162 game season, there is no way, nor is there a reason to implement it
Very well summarized. I think pretty much everybody one step above the swamp can understand that. We'll see, though, as the thread continues ...
7/23/2009 1:28 PM
schuyler101
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Quote: Originally posted by hurricane384 on 7/23/2009I think HFA has to be a case of playability over realism, don't most of you think that way too?There would have to be a different homefield advantage each game. The Nationals don't get the same homefield advantages as the Cubs or Yankees or Red Sox. I've been to Reds games where Cubs fans outnumber Reds fans 2-to-1, easily. How do you simulate that? How do you simulate September home games for contenders versus non-contenders? Do teams who are bad get a negative home-field advantage? When something is so fluid throughout a 162 game season, there is no way, nor is there a reason to implement it.To me, and this is just my opinion, while home field advantage is a neat idea on the surface, the way people want to implement it is just stupid. The only proper way to implement it is just stupid and will take so much time to code that it's not worth it to implement.By the way, Rule 5 was conforming to the rules of MLB...there is no rule in MLB saying a team has to have HFA.Also, the 1999 Reds were 45-37 at home and 50-31 on the road.
2002 Reds were 38-43 at home and 40-41 on the road.

180m budget...not in major league rules...the same for every team, sacrificing realism for playability...and it's a good idea, helps maintain parity

And yeah HFA is not a RULE like Rule 5 is, but a real HFA is present in RL MLB which makes it something I think we should strive to represent as accurately as possible...since the beginning of the thread i've begun to think that a solution involving makeup, patience, temper etc., could be a good one

You can't simulate differences in fan bases, or you could but they won't for the same reason the budgets are the same for every team. So we need to find another solution because no real HFA doesn't cut it
7/23/2009 2:43 PM
swamphawk22
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Home field advantage is based on a lot of things, but since we do not have crowds and attendance in HBD, we are limited.

The best system is to do with HFA what they did with money, everyone is equal.

Add a 2% boost to the home team in everything across the board. This will give them a small but overcomeable advantage.

This will in many way aproximate HFA in real life, but not be hard to do or understand!

Home Field Advantage, Good for You...Good for Me...And good for HBD!!
7/23/2009 4:50 PM
iain
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Quote: Originally Posted By iain on 7/22/2009
7/23/2009 5:55 PM
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