Early Entries - seble responds Topic

oldave
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for the most part, i agree with all of that OR, and i certainly agree that its hard to know how this whole thing will turn out.

I have noticed your statements a few times that the best changes seble could make are the ones that bring in new users. i do agree with that.. and, in hindsight, i dont necesairly think these changes will accomplish much toward that end. except that maybe it will help Seble to feel comfortable and confident in the engine and maybe the next step is to figure out how to attrct new users? i dunno



you did lose me here:

I hope I stay true to this (though not guaranteeing it), once the d3 game is installed into d1 ratings, and 6th grade Y ball matchup are in place), I will simply accept the change for what it is worth, adjust accordingly, and play it as it lies, so to speak.
any chance you could try to clarify what you mean? espceillay "d3 game into d1 ratings"? and "6th grade yball matchups"? i get the last part (Im a golfer too)

im not trying to pick a fight, just dont understand what you are trying to say.







11/20/2009 9:01 AM
zhawks
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I respect OR's caution with the new update and I completely understand it and am thankful for him vocing his thoughts to everyone. That said, I do feel that Seble deserves the chance to make this game his - This is his first big release, we do not have any history to go on in terms of saying what changes he makes are not good for the game. I agree on the part that this change in and of itself is not likely to bring in any new users to the game, I don't think that is the intention of this update at all - My hope is that this is the first change that will start towards a path of an overall stable HD, I can't say we have had that for some time since FSS, and that with a stable game that then they will work towards attracting new coaches.
11/20/2009 9:35 AM
coach_billyg
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i am not sure what all these complex additions you guys are talking about are. but i sure hope they get this simple one in there:

either 1) put potential on the rating page of recruits, or 2) put ft% and work ethic (and maybe gpa for completeness) on the potential screen.

i wish it was mandated for all HD programmers to have a team, so they could relate to these little usability issues that **** you off thousands of times a month. also, they should have to go through the WAN, and play during peak traffic, so they will appreciate how wonderfully the HD servers serve our web pages... and thus, why it would be really nice not to have to load several to view a single player. even better, they could add a 3rd view for the recruiting results screen, that would show all the categories and potential like it does today, except with FT% too, and also squeeze in there the player's ranking for those of us that play d2. and then, show that info optionally on the recruiting summary page too. it could easily save a thousand page views per recruiting period per team. not only might the servers become less ******, but it would save every coach a couple thousand clicks and the seconds that tick away between every one... every recruiting period.
11/20/2009 9:35 AM
oldresorter
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Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 11/20/2009
I respect OR's caution with the new update and I completely understand it and am thankful for him vocing his thoughts to everyone. That said, I do feel that Seble deserves the chance to make this game his - This is his first big release, we do not have any history to go on in terms of saying what changes he makes are not good for the game. I agree on the part that this change in and of itself is not likely to bring in any new users to the game, I don't think that is the intention of this update at all - My hope is that this is the first change that will start towards a path of an overall stable HD, I can't say we have had that for some time since FSS, and that with a stable game that then they will work towards attracting new coaches.



absolutely

if you ever have been part of a successful team (happens more maybe in business for most of us than sports), the ones with most success fight like crazy while preparing, and leave unified, covering each other's backs and ready to kill

the least successful pat each other on the back and tell each other how great they are while preparing, having not thought thru much of anything, and fight like crazy with second guessing, accusations, etc once vanquished

I am trying to push this board toward the former, after feeling part of the FSS failure was the latter.

How am I doing? (It is ok to tell me poorly, that is part of the fight like crazy mode as (is) it not?)

11/20/2009 9:46 AM
Rails
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Quote: Originally Posted By oldresorter on 11/19/2009
rails, the trouble is everyone has a couple of things that bug them about the game, I think a fairly vocal minority has seble on a path, that is not going to impact the number of particiapants at all, and is founded on forum fact as much as fact. Unfortunately, I don't have much of an idea how to impact the number of users either, nor do I think yours will.

For a while, I emailed each of the long term coaches who quit, a large number quit because the engine quit working when FSS was implemented, but a suprising number mentioned how much longer it took to recruit with potential, and the game was pushing the time limit they had available anyhow.

The vocal minority wants this game to get far more complex in order to get more accurate sims, and seble has listened. The truth is, more complex is not the answer, and the game results are pretty close to real life, especially considering the engine has not been touched for over a year.

I would not term anything they do as a deal breaker for me, but I will say, I am trying to enjoy the game as much as I can right now, as I do not look forward to the update at all.

I use the term sim city HD to describe functions like delimna's & hiring assistant coaches and matching recruits favorite shirt color to his favorite school, pretty soon we will be able to hire the cheerleaders and build new practice facilities - all wrong directions if you ask me.

I hear you on the time committment piece of things. In HBD you hire individual coaches every season--a real drag.

From my point of view, the geographic piece of things and for the most part who sims target have not changed since Day 1 2004, but tons of things around recruting have changed like prestige, recruiting costs, FSS, and potential. I just can't see how they wouldn't view geographics and/or how sims target players as a critical magnifier to how those other aspects work.
11/20/2009 12:18 PM
zhawks
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Rails, have you spoken to seble on this? Seble if you are reading this can you comment no why you don't feel (or maybe you do and it can be talked about with EEs?) that Rails does not have a valid point?
11/20/2009 12:27 PM
Rails
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I sent a ticket and got a response that they don't feel comfortable tackling that issue in this update. Hopefully he will at some point.
11/20/2009 1:06 PM
zhawks
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Quote: Originally Posted By Rails on 11/20/2009I sent a ticket and got a response that they don't feel comfortable tackling that issue in this update. Hopefully he will at some point
To look on the bright side of that, they didn't say no. I think seble understands where this games faults are and he has actually admitted some to those of us that have taken the time to talk with him, something I think that we are all very unaccustom to hearing.

They have a lot on their plate with this next update - I hope that once that is done that they will look at the other side of recruit generation.

I also hope that they continue to beta test all the new releases, I think that they have plenty of coaches who would be more then willing to help them out with whatever it is they asked.
11/20/2009 1:26 PM
cmthieme
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I think one problem with pouring too much time into issues with SIM-run teams (and there are plenty), is that it is throw away work if they get the game to where they want it (i.e. humans running the teams). Thus, it's always a trade-off between recognizing that there are improvements to be made to SIM-run logic and also improvements to be made to the game that apply to all teams, and only so much time/money.

Perhaps it's time again to shift some resources to SIM recruiting and address it for the sake of the current state of the game, but I can see why they might be reluctant to spend too much effort on something that is irrelevant if they were able to increase participation and rather shift those resources to effort that might fill those teams with paying customers.

That said, SIM recruiting is only part of Rails issues with recruit location and how it impacts the game.
11/20/2009 1:33 PM
coach_billyg
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Quote: Originally posted by Rails on 11/20/2009I sent a ticket and got a response that they don't feel comfortable tackling that issue in this update.  Hopefully he will at some point.

i think this is smart. considering seble is rewriting the entire sim engine into another language, ideally, i would like to see 2 updates. the first, is just the rewrite, with as few additional changes as possible (as a sanity check, to let the community beat on it and expose the obvious bugs). a few months later, when the engine is stable in the new language, give us the enhancements.

it seems some people are hoping for this release to be revolutionary. if that is the case, i can pretty much guarantee it is not going to be in the direction they are hoping. revolutionary equates to disaster, when the engine is being rewritten completely. it would be nice in theory if seble could really improve the game in the same cycle as the rewrite, but, that is simply unrealistic. seble did a good job with his FSS release, which "fixed" many of the problems with potential. so i think he can put out a quality patch to really improve the game. just not with a complete rewrite. if he can just rewrite the damn thing without breaking it, that is a walk-off home run in my book.
12/1/2009 11:42 PM
mullycj
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Its still boggles my mind that the makers of this game rolled out potential as originally implemented and a season later still claimed it was working exactly as intended.

<boggles>
12/2/2009 4:53 AM
oldresorter
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Quote: Originally Posted By coach_billyg on 12/02/2009
Quote: Originally posted by Rails on 11/20/2009 I sent a ticket and got a response that they don't feel comfortable tackling that issue in this update. Hopefully he will at some point.

i think this is smart. considering seble is rewriting the entire sim engine into another language, ideally, i would like to see 2 updates. the first, is just the rewrite, with as few additional changes as possible (as a sanity check, to let the community beat on it and expose the obvious bugs). a few months later, when the engine is stable in the new language, give us the enhancements.

it seems some people are hoping for this release to be revolutionary. if that is the case, i can pretty much guarantee it is not going to be in the direction they are hoping. revolutionary equates to disaster, when the engine is being rewritten completely. it would be nice in theory if seble could really improve the game in the same cycle as the rewrite, but, that is simply unrealistic. seble did a good job with his FSS release, which "fixed" many of the problems with potential. so i think he can put out a quality patch to really improve the game. just not with a complete rewrite. if he can just rewrite the damn thing without breaking it, that is a walk-off home run in my book
I second this notion - do you have any idea if the scenerio you described is how HD / seble is proceeding???
12/2/2009 6:36 AM
zhawks
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Agree with you guys too.

To what I know about the process it seems like the re-write was the 1st thing they did. I assume they tested it (hope they did too) and then went on with the enhancements - From my understanding it seems that it will be up to the beta testers to catch the other needed fixes, which is why i see the selection of beta testers as being a very important part of this update.
12/2/2009 1:24 PM
zhawks
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Athleticism88
1
Speed94
3
Rebounding60
1
Defense92
3
Shot Blocking34
Low-post52
Perimeter96
3
Ball Handling46
Passing46
Work Ethic52
-13
Stamina96
3
Durability56
FT ShootingA
2/13/2010 9:29 AM
zhawks
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Yr.GPGSMINFG%FG3%FT%OREBREBASTTOSTLBLKPFPTS222806.3.552.333.7650.31.20.40.30.80.00.41.8213008.0.508.414.8130.21.30.30.50.60.10.53.42029017.0.410.250.8800.62.20.61.20.60.00.94.2Averages.462.309.8240.41.60.50.70.60.00.63.1
2/13/2010 9:30 AM
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Early Entries - seble responds Topic
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