ESPN HOF ballot revealed. Topic

MikeT23
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Posted by bad_luck on 1/9/2014 9:26:00 AM (view original):
I don't think it's indefensible. In one season, a WAR difference of .4 or .7 isn't a big deal. Over an entire career, a WAR difference of 15 or 20 wins matters.

A smaller difference, say 6 or 7 wins over an entire career might not. Players that close together require further review.

So, over the course of a 20 year career, a guy who averaged 2.75 WAR has no business being in the HOF and a guy who averaged 3.45 is a no doubter?

1/9/2014 9:36 AM
bad_luck
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I have no idea. WAR isn't be all end all. But, generally, a 15 or 20 win difference is significant.
1/9/2014 9:50 AM
burnsy483
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One additional hit over the course of a week isn't significant.  One hit a week over a season or a career is.
1/9/2014 9:53 AM
byeags25
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So you have 2 players, player A and player B.  Each play 20 seasons.  Every year, player A has about 1 WAR more than player B.  Every year,  you look at them and say player A is a little better, but not significantly.  Then, at the end of their careers, you look at them and say Player A was significantly better than player B because he had 20 more WAR than him over the course of their careers?
1/9/2014 10:01 AM (edited)
MikeT23
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Way to bail on your indefensible statement.

I'll list a couple of players.
Player A:  16 seasons, 9053 PA, 62.7 oWAR
Player B:  23 seasons, 10359 PA, 68.4 oWAR

Would you believe that you've stated that one has no business in the HOF without a ticket and the other is a no doubt HOFer?  Numbers are from B_R.
1/9/2014 9:58 AM
MikeT23
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Honestly, if you pro-rate their careers giving them equal playing time, one is insignifcantly better than the other while one is insignificantly better based on the bottom line. 

1/9/2014 10:00 AM
burnsy483
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Posted by byeags25 on 1/9/2014 10:01:00 AM (view original):
So you have 2 players, player A and player B.  Each play 20 seasons.  Every year, player A has about 1 WAR more than player B.  Every year,  you look at them and say player A is a little better, but not significantly.  Then, at the end of their careers, you look at them and say Player A was significantly better than player B because he had 20 more WAR than him over the course of their careers?
You look at the guy who went 7 for 21 over the course of a week and think he's not much better than the guy who went 6 for 21.  But over the course of a season, that might be 30 more hits.  It's a difference of .047 in BA.  Over the course of a 15 year career, it might be 450 hits.  Clearly one of them had a better career.
1/9/2014 10:01 AM
bad_luck
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Posted by MikeT23 on 1/9/2014 9:58:00 AM (view original):
Way to bail on your indefensible statement.

I'll list a couple of players.
Player A:  16 seasons, 9053 PA, 62.7 oWAR
Player B:  23 seasons, 10359 PA, 68.4 oWAR

Would you believe that you've stated that one has no business in the HOF without a ticket and the other is a no doubt HOFer?  Numbers are from B_R.
I'm not bailing on anything.

I would believe it because WAR isn't be all end all. Who are they?
1/9/2014 10:12 AM
bad_luck
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Posted by burnsy483 on 1/9/2014 10:01:00 AM (view original):
Posted by byeags25 on 1/9/2014 10:01:00 AM (view original):
So you have 2 players, player A and player B.  Each play 20 seasons.  Every year, player A has about 1 WAR more than player B.  Every year,  you look at them and say player A is a little better, but not significantly.  Then, at the end of their careers, you look at them and say Player A was significantly better than player B because he had 20 more WAR than him over the course of their careers?
You look at the guy who went 7 for 21 over the course of a week and think he's not much better than the guy who went 6 for 21.  But over the course of a season, that might be 30 more hits.  It's a difference of .047 in BA.  Over the course of a 15 year career, it might be 450 hits.  Clearly one of them had a better career.
This concept is beyond mike's abilities.
1/9/2014 10:13 AM
MikeT23
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Posted by bad_luck on 1/9/2014 10:13:00 AM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 1/9/2014 10:01:00 AM (view original):
Posted by byeags25 on 1/9/2014 10:01:00 AM (view original):
So you have 2 players, player A and player B.  Each play 20 seasons.  Every year, player A has about 1 WAR more than player B.  Every year,  you look at them and say player A is a little better, but not significantly.  Then, at the end of their careers, you look at them and say Player A was significantly better than player B because he had 20 more WAR than him over the course of their careers?
You look at the guy who went 7 for 21 over the course of a week and think he's not much better than the guy who went 6 for 21.  But over the course of a season, that might be 30 more hits.  It's a difference of .047 in BA.  Over the course of a 15 year career, it might be 450 hits.  Clearly one of them had a better career.
This concept is beyond mike's abilities.

Doesn't really translate to WAR does it?   All other things being equal, wouldn't a guy hitting .333 be just a little bit more than "insignificantly" better wrt WAR than a guy hitting .285 at season's end?

1/9/2014 10:17 AM
MikeT23
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Posted by bad_luck on 1/9/2014 10:12:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/9/2014 9:58:00 AM (view original):
Way to bail on your indefensible statement.

I'll list a couple of players.
Player A:  16 seasons, 9053 PA, 62.7 oWAR
Player B:  23 seasons, 10359 PA, 68.4 oWAR

Would you believe that you've stated that one has no business in the HOF without a ticket and the other is a no doubt HOFer?  Numbers are from B_R.
I'm not bailing on anything.

I would believe it because WAR isn't be all end all. Who are they?
Figure it out.  It's all there.     I'm pretty sure you know anyway.
1/9/2014 10:18 AM
MikeT23
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Posted by MikeT23 on 1/9/2014 10:17:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 1/9/2014 10:13:00 AM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 1/9/2014 10:01:00 AM (view original):
Posted by byeags25 on 1/9/2014 10:01:00 AM (view original):
So you have 2 players, player A and player B.  Each play 20 seasons.  Every year, player A has about 1 WAR more than player B.  Every year,  you look at them and say player A is a little better, but not significantly.  Then, at the end of their careers, you look at them and say Player A was significantly better than player B because he had 20 more WAR than him over the course of their careers?
You look at the guy who went 7 for 21 over the course of a week and think he's not much better than the guy who went 6 for 21.  But over the course of a season, that might be 30 more hits.  It's a difference of .047 in BA.  Over the course of a 15 year career, it might be 450 hits.  Clearly one of them had a better career.
This concept is beyond mike's abilities.

Doesn't really translate to WAR does it?   All other things being equal, wouldn't a guy hitting .333 be just a little bit more than "insignificantly" better wrt WAR than a guy hitting .285 at season's end?

Unless, of course, we're using Weekly WAR now.    Maybe we can break it down to Game WAR.
1/9/2014 10:22 AM
tecwrg
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Posted by MikeT23 on 1/9/2014 10:18:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 1/9/2014 10:12:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/9/2014 9:58:00 AM (view original):
Way to bail on your indefensible statement.

I'll list a couple of players.
Player A:  16 seasons, 9053 PA, 62.7 oWAR
Player B:  23 seasons, 10359 PA, 68.4 oWAR

Would you believe that you've stated that one has no business in the HOF without a ticket and the other is a no doubt HOFer?  Numbers are from B_R.
I'm not bailing on anything.

I would believe it because WAR isn't be all end all. Who are they?
Figure it out.  It's all there.     I'm pretty sure you know anyway.
Ha ha ha!

I figured out both A and B on the first guess.
1/9/2014 10:23 AM
bad_luck
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Posted by MikeT23 on 1/9/2014 10:18:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 1/9/2014 10:12:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/9/2014 9:58:00 AM (view original):
Way to bail on your indefensible statement.

I'll list a couple of players.
Player A:  16 seasons, 9053 PA, 62.7 oWAR
Player B:  23 seasons, 10359 PA, 68.4 oWAR

Would you believe that you've stated that one has no business in the HOF without a ticket and the other is a no doubt HOFer?  Numbers are from B_R.
I'm not bailing on anything.

I would believe it because WAR isn't be all end all. Who are they?
Figure it out.  It's all there.     I'm pretty sure you know anyway.
It's your example. I really don't care.
1/9/2014 10:25 AM
MikeT23
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Of course you don't.   Because it makes you look foolish.  

1/9/2014 10:26 AM
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ESPN HOF ballot revealed. Topic
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