Posted by lostnfound74 on 7/17/2022 6:06:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bruceleefan on 7/16/2022 10:53:00 PM (view original):
Bob, here are some examples of folks creating children late in life.

Erramatti Mangayamma at age 74 gave birth to twins in India last week after becoming pregnant through IVF, making her the oldest person ever to give birth, according to her doctors.

Maria del Carmen Bousada de Lara is the oldest verified mother; she was aged 66 years 358 days when she gave birth to twins.

The oldest ever man to father a child was reportedly Les Colley (1898 - 1998, Australia), who had his ninth child a son named Oswald to his third wife at the age of 92 years 10 months.

Ramjit Raghav is reportedly the oldest father in the world. In 2012, Raghav fathered his second son at the age of 96.

You and Mwett always arguing? Looks bad.

Question: Does Christ live in you? Are you saved? How do you know this?

I know this is like point blank, but I am curious.

Ramjit Raghav: I need to know what supplements he takes. This means I have another 19 years, and a bit :-D

I was raised Catholic and found many issues even as a child. Somewhere around confirmation I began to openly rebel against much of their teachings. I thought it really slimy that I, as a 12 year old, was being asked to "confirm" my commitment to something I was really not sure I agreed with.

I left the church soon afterwards and also railed against it. At the time, I was pretty offended by one particular priest who lived in a big 2 story house with a satellite dish (pretty expensive and fancy for early 80s), and drove a brand new Cadillac.

That didn't sit well with me. I also started taking note of just how lavish a lot of these Catholic churches were. I thought, the priest shouldn't be living better than the flock he's shepherding. Why does he need the satellite? Why does he need the nicest car at church every Sunday? Why is his house likely nicer than anyone in his congregation? Why is the church so lavish and ornate? Couldn't this money be put to much better use and be helping the poor instead? I bet if we took all the money spent in this manner on churches around the country we could end hunger tomorrow.

So I left. I had nothing to do with the church for years. I did lots of drugs and other crazy things a rebellious teen might. I still had a longing or curiosity maybe. I read lots of books on religion and philosophy, as well as secular books. Erich von Däniken's Chariots of the Gods made a pretty big impact on this teenage mind. I read the Book of Mormon. I read the Satanic Bible by Anton Levey. I read the Qaran. I read the Rig Veda. I read the Tripitaka. I read Nietzsche. I read Descartes. I read Confucius.

Then one day (night really) I was having a negative acid trip while at a party. I had given a few hits away and some girl who I knew from school started flirting with me. I'd known her for a few years. Not really knew her but seen her in passing and maybe had a few classes with her. Anyway, this girl never gave me the time of day before, and I always felt she was a bit snooty, but suddenly she couldn't smile big enough at me. She couldn't stop following me around. We even made out a bit, before it became clear to me. Of course she wanted a hit. It wasn't anything about me she was after, it was the acid. This made me feel kinda grossed out by the blatant superficialness of her affections. I started observing others at the party and saw their superficial fallen nature on full display everywhere around me, even those I was pretty good friends with. I became very uncomfortable and walked home.

I was living in Central Florida at the time, and there was an urban legend that love bugs had been "created" in a lab at UF in Gainesville. I started thinking, if we could create life, then essentially we were their God. I know how it sounds, but I felt convicted by the Holy Spirit. I heard God ask me why had I devoted all this time reading everything I could but had never read the Bible? So I picked it up and started reading. I had gotten all the way through Genesis before I finally went to sleep.

I spent the next several weeks reading through the entirety of it. As I came to the end I had a lot more questions and realized that some passages that were confusing to me when I was reading them earlier had become more clear by the time I was finished. So, I started over and read it again. It was amazing that there were so many entries I swear I hadn't noticed before.

I still had many issues with the church, but felt fairly strongly that there was something real in those pages. In fact, it became even more clear that many of the teachings of the Catholic church I grew up learning were in direct opposition of what I had read. It left me kind of in limbo. I had a hard time reconciling the idea of a loving God with the despair in the world. While I was sure there was something special about THIS holy book, I was still in somewhat open rebellion against it. The example I asked Matt about (The Blue Lagoon) was one I couldn't understand. It really troubled me for quite sometime.

I was working my first job as a drive thru cashier and had a regular customer who came through every day with the same order. He was a kind soul and one day after getting his order he came inside and asked if I had a few minutes. He'd never come in before and it was actually the end of my shift.
We talked there in the dining room for a really long time. The things he said were mind blowing. I never really knew the man. We had exchanged pleasantries every day cause he was a regular, but we didn't know anything else about each other beyond that.

The first thing he said to me when we sat down to talk was "Do you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ"? I said, that's a really good question, but I wasn't even sure I believed in the Jesus of the Bible. Then what he said next made the hair on my neck stand up. "I normally hand out Bible tracks and pamphlets, but the Lord told me you had already read so much and you needed a personal conversation. The last thing you needed was more reading material".
HOW COULD HE POSSIBLY KNOW THIS?!?

His questions were gentle and with pure intension. We talked about many of my thoughts and ideas and he answered a lot of my questions quite lovingly. At the end of our conversation he asked if I was ready to actually know Christ personally and accept Him as my Savior. I was.

We prayed together, there @ Wendy's, and as we prayed I could literally feel the Holy Spirit filling me up. It was wonderful and a bit scary all at the same time, but I could feel such a strong, overwhelming amount of love being poured into me at that very moment, I thought I would burst. I remember tingling from head to toe and felt self consciously that I was grinning from ear to ear uncontrollably. I remember looking into his eyes and saw them become almost translucent as we prayed. It was like the Holy Spirit was flowing out of him and into me. Needless to say it made a big impression.

Posted by lostnfound74 on 7/17/2022 8:29:00 AM (view original):
You type better than me, then

I DO paste scripture, but from Bible websites.
Bible Gateway I think I use most often.

Posted by lostnfound74 on 7/17/2022 6:06:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bruceleefan on 7/16/2022 10:53:00 PM (view original):
Bob, here are some examples of folks creating children late in life.

Erramatti Mangayamma at age 74 gave birth to twins in India last week after becoming pregnant through IVF, making her the oldest person ever to give birth, according to her doctors.

Maria del Carmen Bousada de Lara is the oldest verified mother; she was aged 66 years 358 days when she gave birth to twins.

The oldest ever man to father a child was reportedly Les Colley (1898 - 1998, Australia), who had his ninth child a son named Oswald to his third wife at the age of 92 years 10 months.

Ramjit Raghav is reportedly the oldest father in the world. In 2012, Raghav fathered his second son at the age of 96.

You and Mwett always arguing? Looks bad.

Question: Does Christ live in you? Are you saved? How do you know this?

I know this is like point blank, but I am curious.

Ramjit Raghav: I need to know what supplements he takes. This means I have another 19 years, and a bit :-D

Yeah I understand about the arguing thing, but I think it's okay. I'm not here to pretend. It's definitely an issue that some will use to discredit, but I'd rather argue with a brother if I think their answers are insufficient.

Like when dahs made a well articulated point about the early church leaders and pointed to verifiable factual data only to be met with "I don't need to defend my faith, that's your job" it doesn't sit well with me.

He is obviously called to minister in fields that I am not. His gift isn't apologetics. That's okay too.
But I am pretty well versed on quite a bit of it and think I have a better shot at providing more satisfying answers to those who question and present well reasoned objections to parts of scripture. I can, because in many cases I've had/have a lot of the same questions.

I feel providing that feedback is more important than a fake outward appearance of harmony.

LOL looks like I'm talking about Luther and Zwingli.

How about this. You obviously think very little of Dino and several others in this thread. You've said on more than one occasion they weren't sincere so they didn't deserve your answers. You call their well reasoned objections chaff.

I do not feel the same way. I am willing to engage them and answer any and all questions. Why not allow me that opportunity?

If I can't contradict something you've said, maybe don't say it. You don't even believe there's a chance anyone posting is seriously seeking Christ, so what's the point of you engaging them?

I'm not going to shut down my dialogue, and I also will not keep quiet while someone chimes in with a garbage response when a legitimate question is asked.

There's but one sure fired way to ensure we aren't arguing in front of skeptics.

You two lovebirds keep on keeping on if you must..........but meantime I note that no one has answered this question I posed:

"Is every word in The Bible to be defended as TRUTH ("Gospel truth" if you will).........every parable, every story, every WORD is Historical Fact, a TRUE representation...........every word FACT............ Is it?"

I do have an opinion on this (I'd expect you to figure that) but I'm asking Y'all.

I'd BET tons of anything you treasure that I can predict with certainly what the LNF's answer will be.

And one of you two "lovebirds" is maybe the "snarkiest" poster round these parts (Congrats, THAT is quite the accomplishment) and also the most blatant example of holier than thou I'm right about God and you're NOT off-putting Un-Christian behavior I've seen in a while.

I'M SURE I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SIR!



I DID HOWEVER, STUMBLE ACROSS THIS:



Later...............

Posted by Mwett on 7/17/2022 12:34:00 PM (view original):
We're told to pull a brother in error aside but not in public. If he still errors or doesn't listen then to bring another brother along, not only as an additional source that you might consider as opposed to just the one you're arguing with, but also as evidence for that possible fateful day when you have to tell it to the church and consequences for additional or continued rebellion could include being put out of the church, to be treated as an unbeliever. I didn't ask for lnf's help. I didn't ask for the multiple site-mails of support. Yet there they are. But yet of course let's wait and see if you still think this is about you being right.

There are many many many others who follow this forum yet without written word contribution. Yet, they have eyes to see. Why do you think it's been so easy and swift to get dino run up outta here multiple times. Guess who did that. Guess who didn't do it alone. What's in your in-box ?

Told by whom? And what church are you participating in that "puts people out" for not having the "correct" beliefs?

Pick a parable. Most of them tell you that's clearly the wrong thing to do. Forget the lost sheep, you have a sheep who just wants to graze a few feet away from the rest of your flock and your response to that is to run it off into the woods?

For a guy trying desperately to project a holier-than-thou Christian image of himself you don't seem to have actually comprehended very much of the Bible.

Still silence.........and your claim that I am a "cloaked hater" or whatever is just pure unadulterated nonsense.
And another CLEAR example in YOU judging others. Others you know little to nothing about. And damning them and calling them names and hurling perceived insults.
YOU apparently think because you believe in God you get to be GOD!

I call BS!
And I'll clearly state that your belief system is visibly NOT superior to many other belief systems when defined by adherence to Jesus Christ of Nazareth's teachings! (based on what you post/Preach!).

Jesus was NOT arrogant nor a snarky self declared Christian behaving otherwise..........that's on You.

Bob, I did indeed answer your question. I'll try to elaborate a bit here:

I haven't ever come to a conclusion on that question. I certainly believe there are tons of inspired portions but I am not convinced that ALL of it is.

Most Evangelicals will throw me out of their church for holding that position. One of the core tenants of many Christian churches is that one must believe that the Holy Bible is the unadulterated Word of God, and nothing less is acceptable. I can't make that declaration for several reasons.

Am I wrong for that? I honestly don't know.
My spirit Is simply not comfortable blindly accepting things that haven't been able to withstand scrutiny. There is little doubt in my mind that the Holy Bible that we have today has been corrupted to some degree, but certainly don't think it's been corrupted enough to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Posted by Mwett on 7/15/2022 6:53:00 AM (view original):

Posted by lostnfound74 on 7/15/2022 5:30:00 AM (view original):
"Jesus had a small following of cowards and a betrayer. Even they did not recognize divinity until after his death. "

I cannot find the o.poster.. but this is nonsense. They were anything but cowards. Would YOU risk your life to follow Christ? Would YOU spread the Gospel if you knew it could cost you your life?? I kind of doubt it, but

They did, and they knew it.

That post is by this thread's author, and supported by an 'intellect and scholar' who also claims to be able to discredit the Bible while fully supporting other non-God inspired works, all in the name of 'discussion'. They call some of us ignorant haters and beat their worldly chest from a position of assumed authority and correctness, never bothering for a moment to consider that THEY are the ones being laughed at and to be pittied. I'm ashamed of myself coming back to this hateful and hater thread. I do mourn the lost, but it's their choice in their smarty-pants slant to write their own ticket. Man is without excuse. Where did that come from ? Oh, the same book full of fables and contradictions and easily discredited, allegedly.

Here is your 2nd response to me personally. Actually it wasn't TO me it was to LostinFound.

You just passive aggressively mentioned me, mocked me, insulted me and called my intent and knowledge into question.

At this time I had only ever addressed Dino directly and perhaps one reply to Bob.

I called you out for your smugness, because in fact that was a smug post. You responded and asked a few questions while continuing to tell me how I had only posted opinions and untruths.

Wow, that seems rather smug AGAIN, but even so, I tried to continue a dialogue with you.

I answered your question and posed a few of my own that you've never bothered to respond to.

It is amazing to me that you can declare that I've posted untruths but then accuse me of being a know-it-all and show-off.

Aren't you the one declaring yourself the arbiter of truth here?

I honestly don't INTEND to be at odds with you, but you've definitely treated me much worse than the non Christians in this thread have to this point.

My first couple of questions seemed fine in a vacuum? Yet you refused to answer because (before you had a chance, I assume) you saw through my wolf in sheep's clothing routine?

Got it "brother".

I don't accept anyone as Christians because they say so on a message board.

I don't see any private messages from any of you guys that you claim are all in agreement that I'm full of it and not sincere No pulling me to the side privately by any of you.

Even so I'll make one last concession.

I do respect Doug's opinion. I've seen several of his posts that were impressive, well reasoned an thought provoking.
I've seen the exact opposite from you.

I did notice a post of Doug's that appeared to be very sarcastic and hinted that I might be some other poster from years past or whatever. But I'd like it if Doug might point to some of my more troubling posts. Where I displayed my "true nature", as it were.

Also if Doug will tell me how and where I initiated any animosity between us, I will take the accusation much more seriously.

My biggest problem this, and I guess you'll never answer this one either but...

What's the difference between a Christian who says "Believe as I do or you're going to hell"
and a Muslim who says " Believe as I do or you deserve to die"?

Because your right?

Please go ahead and have me kicked out then.

If being a "real Christian" requires a disdain for critical thinking, refusing to answer tough questions, belittling others, dismissing legitimate questions and objections as chaff, then I am decidedly NOT that kind of Christian.