You guys did add grit and nasty - but you also added penalties ---- 

SOD - 87
Monty - 83
Carcillo - 127
Mayers - 124
Brunette - 16 


To put it in perspective - Hawks 2010-11 PIMs leaders 

Scott - 72
Dowell - 63
Kopecky - 60
Seabrook - 47
Stalberg - 43
Bickell - 40
Hjalmarsson - 39



I hope your 2nd year goalie is ready for a lot more 1 man disadvantages.... especially w/o Campbell on the team. 

Well, the way I see it the PK, PP net presence and team toughness were the biggest weaknesses of this team. They were all addressed to varying degrees. To be clear when I said they added grit, and all that, I was looking at the additions as a whole.

As a Flyers fan, you know that you don't add grit and toughness to your team without adding some PIMs, and I'm ok with that. If the PK can be a top-15 unit in the league this season, I think that will more than make up for the added PIMs.

The other interesting thing here is the over-abundance of forwards. I wonder if the Hawks really will have an open competition in camp, or if it's just lip service from Stan. Everything he's said publicly he's stuck to thus far, so no reason to doubt him. That in itself could get the team off to a good start if the guys come to camp ready to compete.

I don't think the Hawks want Montador to be a #4. I think they're looking for the group of Montador, Leddy and Campoli to cover the 4 hole as a group, which is an interesting strategy. I'm not convinced, but it might work. If nothing else, Montador will be a good mentor for Leddy.

As for Carcillo, to be honest I wasn't crazy about the signing. The Hawks have a good locker room and I really hope this doesn't ruin that. That being said, when he plays on the edge and not over it, he is a very effective player. I can see him, Bolland and Bickell causing havoc for opposing teams' top lines as a checking unit IF, and I know that's a big IF the Hawks coaching staff can reign in Carcillo. This could be his last chance in the NHL and with Q and Tazer there, I don't think they'll let him get out of line. If it doesn't work out, 775k down the drain. A gamble yes, but a good one considering the price. It still doesn't mean I have to like the guy though.

I just posted this in the Philly thread.  
________________________________
I suppose a good thing about this offseason is Philly dumped a lot of PIMs w/o sacrificing physicality. 

Lost: 

Carcillo - 127 PIMs
SOD - 87

replaced them with: 

Talbot - 66 PIMs
Simmonds - 75
Lilja - 28
___________________________________________



***You can still have grit and nasty without absurd PIMs.  The flyers were one of the most penalized teams last season and it KILLED us (even with one of the most talented D's 'as a whole' in the league)... and when push came to shove we still weren't gritty or nasty enough against Boston (who takes the cake in Grit and Nasty).  The flyers discarded Carcillo and SOD for a reason. stupid penalties.  Hartnell is next.  watch.

I get all that, but you can't deny that players like that can be effective in the right situations. eager, burish, kopecky and Boston were all players who were bad penalty and stupidity prone, and they all have Stanley cup rings. same goes for boychuk, lucid, Thornton and Campbell in Boston. anaheim won a cup and made it to another final with a roster full of guys like that.

and while I like max talbot a lot, hell be one of the most overpaid players in the nhl this season. as for andreas lilja, I'd take sod, monty, campoli or leddy over him any day. no argument on Simmonds though. the kid is a great addition and is a relentless forechecker.

Posted by andru2797 on 7/5/2011 8:02:00 AM (view original):
I get all that, but you can't deny that players like that can be effective in the right situations. eager, burish, kopecky and Boston were all players who were bad penalty and stupidity prone, and they all have Stanley cup rings. same goes for boychuk, lucid, Thornton and Campbell in Boston. anaheim won a cup and made it to another final with a roster full of guys like that.

and while I like max talbot a lot, hell be one of the most overpaid players in the nhl this season. as for andreas lilja, I'd take sod, monty, campoli or leddy over him any day. no argument on Simmonds though. the kid is a great addition and is a relentless forechecker.

Sometimes they are effective.... that's why they are in the NHL. On the other hand..... many times they are not effective and that's why guys like carcillo and burish were scratches in the finals. I don't know much about Lilja other than he blocks more shots and he causes less penalties than SOD. He's also faster. The flyers had a choice to bring back SOD and he wanted to play in Philly ..... it was Philly that chose lilja over SOD and there was plenty of reason to do so.

Talbot is not overpaid imo. A guy that comes to play every shift, who can be as annoying to play against as carcillo, a fan favorite, a guy that actually can skate and defend, who can play center or wing...... 27 yrs old and we wrapped him up for 5 seasons at $1.8 mil. I like Talbot more than all the players the hawks acquired. Talk about grit and nasty..... and he only had 66 PIMs last season. If we paid him $3 mil then yes we way overpaid.... but at $1.8 I'm sure I can find a lot of bad players making much more than that.

I guess I should rephrase that....

Even if he is overpaid... by how much do you think? 300k, 400k? Does that really matter with a $64 mil cap? I think paying a guy like Leino $4.5x 6 yrs .... thats probably about 3 years to many and about $1.5 per year too much. that to me is overpaid. I'm not so worried about securing a versitile player like Talbot for 5 seasons at his age for $1.8 mil.

No kidding about Wisniewski.... . the good out of it was the term - it shows between Carter and Wisniewski that CLB is trying to be a long term contender rather than a team that turns over its star prospects every few seasons.


Really if SOD and Lilja are used in minor roles they are both fine players. Sounds like the Hawks will need to rely on SOD more than the Flyers with Lilja (if he even makes the team - Gustafsson may beat him out). SOD is in the penalty box a lot - he's been slowing down with age and when beaten takes the penalty. I like his character/leadership and he is a smart player (especially when choosing a time and player to fight) - but his skills are diminishing.

EDIT - and if Pronger is injured and out and Lilja's role is increased - just like last season with SOD - the flyers are in trouble.

"I will have more to come shortly on the Flyers, Flames, Leafs, and Canucks (who along with Chicago really like Dubinsky)" From Eklund

- and as some would say that means it won't happen ;)

LOL...indeed...Brandon Dubinsky can't be traded as he's filed for arbitration. What an idiot.

I don't think SOD will be used any more than he was in Philly. He's got Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, Leddy, Montador and Campoli (assuming he signs) ahead of him. That makes him #7.

speaking of campoli..... we find out in about 1.5 hours whether campoli, frolik, and stalberg file for arb

Indeed...I bet they all file considering what the market has been this summer...someone's gonna go.

agreed.

I bet Carbomb doesn't even make the team.

I just wanted to type Carbomb again.

Campoli filed for arby.