MLD World Thread #2 - Page 17 - Theme Leagues

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Quote: Originally Posted By big_drive on 4/15/2008
Vetoing deals is wrong, IMO. GMs can't veto deals in the NHL, GMs in the MLD shouldn't either. Personally, I don't think I've ever vetoed a deal in this league. I used to do it in other leagues, especially if the teams involved were in my division. But other GMs complained out all the vetoing so I stopped. I figured if GMs want to make deals then let them, so long as they fit within league rules.

I'm with you on this one big_drive. I vetoed one trade back in the first season. It was then explained to me why vetoing is wrong, sort of like the debate we are having right now. After that, I figured that if the participating GMs want the trade, far be it from me to stop them. I rarely even look at the trades now. Which is why, if anyone wants to trade with me, send me site mail letting me know, or I'll never see it until it is too late.

4/16/2008 8:31 AM

smeric

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All you guys giving in to peer pressure ... sad, sad, sad. "Vetoing trades, even though you have the right to do so, is wrong - don't do it or I will frown down upon you."

BTW, killing plants and animals so you can eat them is wrong. Please cease this activity immediately.

If you don't think a trade is fair then sack up and exercise your right to veto - the deal will very likely still go through anyway, but at least you let your voice be heard. Why have elections to decide governments? May as well just re-establish a monarchy or install a dictator, then no one will be forced to speak their minds.

4/17/2008 9:20 AM

drg330

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Exactly what I said smeric

4/17/2008 12:45 PM

damag

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Youse guys are all gonna hate me when I start giving offer sheets to restricted free agents!

4/17/2008 1:31 PM

drg330

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OK KLowe....settle down now

4/17/2008 1:42 PM

onekrazypuck

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everyone should agree to disagree on the veto discussion.

4/17/2008 3:35 PM

onekrazypuck

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Totally off topic, I was thinking of posting an MLD related thread in the NHL Forum....... for the sake of getting the MLD some exposure to those who are not GMs in our league...... you know, possibly to gather "fans" lol

When the real NHL playoffs end, perhaps the MLD can help fill that void...giving other WifS users teams to cheer(or boo) for.

I dunno, just a thought...... kind of silly thought now that I am reading this post...... oh well, just thought I'd throw it out here.

4/17/2008 3:44 PM

big_drive

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Quote: Originally Posted By smeric on 4/17/2008
All you guys giving in to peer pressure ... sad, sad, sad. "Vetoing trades, even though you have the right to do so, is wrong - don't do it or I will frown down upon you."
BTW, killing plants and animals so you can eat them is wrong. Please cease this activity immediately.
If you don't think a trade is fair then sack up and exercise your right to veto - the deal will very likely still go through anyway, but at least you let your voice be heard. Why have elections to decide governments? May as well just re-establish a monarchy or install a dictator, then no one will be forced to speak their minds.

You know, I haven't found any posting to be really annoying until this one. You took what was my OPINION on this topic and went off the deep end the other way with it. not only that but you attack me personally by telling me I gave into peer pressure, or I should sack up and veto trades I don't agree with. What gives?

If you don't like my ideas or opinions that's fine. I don't always agree with other GMs here on topics relating to this league. In fact I'm always, and I do mean always, in the minority. Even though this has been the norm for me, I have never ever told anyone to sack up and do things the way I do.

Opinions are like a**holes, everybody has one.

"The great thing about America is everybody has an opinion, another great thing is you don't have to listen" -Dennis Green

4/17/2008 8:34 PM

drg330

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Well, at least everyone knows how everybody else feels on this topic

4/18/2008 2:11 AM

damag

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I've never been in a league - WIS or Fantasy - where the veto has not been a hot topic. And there are owners who have voiced exactly this same spectrum of opinions. But the veto is still in play in all these leagues. Why do the people who build the games put it there? Because we are not in a real life situation. We are guys sitting in front of computers. We've never met in a boardroom to actually work out a deal in a real-time fiscally relevant situation.

We're just playing a game, and unfortunately I think we've all been in at least one league where some fool tried something shady. Some abuses are actually legendary and have wrecked entire leagues. We are all familiar with each other in this league so there's no chance of that. But the veto is there to help us police ourselves... this is not a situation in which the commissioner can always just lay down the law.

The veto is there, and we may disagree on how to use it. That's why there's also the number of votes necessary to enact it. They work hand in hand.

I see nothing wrong with someone letting whatever they want to go through. I also see nothing wrong with a trade being vetoed by the necessary number of owners in the league. We are in this together.

4/18/2008 7:28 AM

smeric

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Quote: Originally Posted By big_drive on 4/17/2008

Quote: Originally Posted By smeric on 4/17/2008

All you guys giving in to peer pressure ... sad, sad, sad. "Vetoing trades, even though you have the right to do so, is wrong - don't do it or I will frown down upon you."
BTW, killing plants and animals so you can eat them is wrong. Please cease this activity immediately.
If you don't think a trade is fair then sack up and exercise your right to veto - the deal will very likely still go through anyway, but at least you let your voice be heard. Why have elections to decide governments? May as well just re-establish a monarchy or install a dictator, then no one will be forced to speak their minds.
You know, I haven't found any posting to be really annoying until this one. (YAY ME!) You took what was my OPINION on this topic and went off the deep end the other way with it. (Umm no. I simply stated a very reasonable response to it - by the way, Sunshine, "OPINIONS" are not sacred testament, they can be challenged) not only that but you attack me personally by telling me I gave into peer pressure (not an attack, a statement of fact - you DID give in to peer pressure), or I should sack up and veto trades I don't agree with (You should). What gives? (Just trying to do my part to help you by encouraging you to maintain your resolve and feel free to express your true feeling. I'm a caring human being like that)

If you don't like my ideas or opinions that's fine. I don't always agree with other GMs here on topics relating to this league. In fact I'm always, and I do mean always, in the minority. Even though this has been the norm for me, I have never ever told anyone to sack up and do things the way I do.

Opinions are like a**holes, everybody has one.

"The great thing about America is everybody has an opinion, another great thing is you don't have to listen" -Dennis Green

Easy now, Nancy. No one "personally attacked" you (well until just now with that "Nancy" barb) - I expressed my opinion on owners not choosing to exercise proper due diligence in regard to monitoring trade activity in the league purely on the basis they were told by one or more other owners that it was wrong.

I find it really funny that your entire post pretty much provides support for MY opinion. Everything you said also backs up my position. When I see an opinion posted that I find absolutely ludicrous why should I remain silent and allow that ludicrous opinion circulate unopposed, possibly having it contaminate other owners thinking?

Just as you exercised your right to express an opinion, I expressed mine. We each have that right. We also have the right to find each others opinion ridiculous. Congratulations - we have proven democracy and free speech works.

You're right opinions are like a**holes - and sometimes a**holes have opinions too. If speaking out on a topic makes me an a**hole then I am proud to call myself one.

4/18/2008 9:30 AM

smeric

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In fairness, I was relatively silent in discussions pertaining to this league for the first nine seasons. What resulted from that were changes being made that I really didn't agree with to league rules. I am OK now that the rules were changed, because that is what the majority of the league wanted - majority rules - but perhaps if I were more vocal things may have been different.

But I blame myself for my opposition to the rule changes not carrying much clout. Why didn't my opposition have clout? Because I had been silent for nine seasons. The fact that an extremely unbalanced deal was allowed to pass with such a blasse attitude quite frankly ****** me off, and then to see people justifying the lack of vetos by saying they were told "vetos are wrong" set me over the edge. A good analogy I relate to this situation is the whole "Let sleeping dogs lie" adage - this sleeping dog has been awoken by the activity in this league the past couple months. Now he's awake and looking to be heard.

If my RL schedule permits it I will be far more opinionated in the future than you all may have become accustomed to in our first 9 seasons together.

4/18/2008 9:43 AM

drg330

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OK guys, let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that OK? Although a good feud between owners might carry over onto the ice and actually result in an on-ice scrap (when's the last time we saw one of those in MLD?) Just keep it civil boys.

4/18/2008 4:33 PM

onekrazypuck

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"Can't we all just get along?" - Rodney King

No but seriously guys. This discussion has gotten to be a bit heated. Me thinks it should be an agree to disagree issue........ different strokes for different folks.

The veto is and can always be used.... I just hope it gets used fairly. (fairly as in vetoing trades that you really feel are lop-sided....as opposed to vetoing a deal that involves a division rival....or revenge vetos where you ONLY opt to veto cuz a GM involved in the deal vetoed one of your previous deals)

We have a solid group of mostly experienced GMs..... passionate GMs..... so passionate that I'm surprised it has taken this long for a heated discussion like this to develop.

Personally, I'm neutral on the whole issue which I know is taking the easy way out but so be it. I don't think I have vetoed any deal thus far, however I am not opposed to those who do choose to click that veto button. Different strokes for different folks. As the MLD Commish and GM of an MLD franchise, I am forced to see things from both sides of the fence.....

The GM side of me chooses to focus and worry about my own team..... if other teams are making lop-sided trades, sucks to be them..... if someone sends me an offer which looks like I'd get burned on.... I simply reject. If someone sends me an offer that look amazing and too good to be true, as a GM, you bet I am going to accept it!

The Commish side of me sees the need to keep everything and everyone competitive. (Hence the drafting bonuses) As Commish, I hope all the GMs can manage their teams to the best of their ability.(Hence the constant checkups for AWOL GMs). If I notice any GMs repeatedly getting hosed or taken advantage of, I make it a point to contact them to make sure they understand the rules and clarify things.

As far as that controversial trade goes, the GMs involved have been active participants in the MLD for a long time now, so I imagine they knew what they were doing when they made that trade in an effort to better their own franchises.

With that said, I've noticed the same two teams involved in that controversial trade have made another 2-for-1 deal....a deal that may or may not have been part of the 1st trade........ Its possible the GMs involved saw that their trade caused some tension and made that 2nd deal to level things out. Only those 2 GMs know for sure.

Lastly, I just wanted to add that any trade that has ever happened in any sport usually ends up benefitting one team more than the other...... its the unpredictable nature of sport. Even Gretzky got traded!! As a silly Leaf fan, I've seen many bunk trades over the years..... rememeber the Kordic for Courtnall deal?? wtf was up with THAT?.... I rememeber another one where the Leafs traded away a draft pick who eventually ended up being Luongo! tsk tsk....

anyhow...... debates are good, lets just try to get carried away with it....respect each others opinions and save the name calling for when your team plays the Crooks!

4/18/2008 4:57 PM

onekrazypuck

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haha DRG said the same thing I said but his post wasn't there when I started typing my yap-fest lol

I haven't seen a scrap in the MLD since....well, might be forever!!!! And you know when the GM of the penalty prone Kingston Crooks says something like THAT.... yikes!

(Rammers and I even went as far as to shadow our goons on each other for a game last season......sadly, no gloves where dropped.... though my goon did end up scoring a bunch! lol)

4/18/2008 5:00 PM

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