HOF Topic

domiisgod
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Quote: Originally Posted By disaacs on 1/19/2010
Those SP/RP requirements could potentially screw over a player like http://www.whatifsports.com/hbd/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx?pid=37494

He's currently over the 50G threshold, but a few seasons below that and he'll no longer be eligible, even though I believe he's clearly a HOFer. It will be moot if he can get 1 more AS appearance, but if he doesn't...then what?





81 wins and 160 saves, how does that make him HOF material ?

My best clsoers can save that many that in 3-4 seasons and any SP worth his salt can win 81 in 4 seasons...

1/19/2010 3:46 PM
kcden
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Quote: Originally Posted By disaacs on 1/19/2010

Those SP/RP requirements could potentially screw over a player like http://www.whatifsports.com/hbd/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx?pid=37494

He's currently over the 50G threshold, but a few seasons below that and he'll no longer be eligible, even though I believe he's clearly a HOFer. It will be moot if he can get 1 more AS appearance, but if he doesn't...then what?




How is someone with 81 wins and 160 saves "clearly a HOFer?"

EDIT: ^ Clearly I wasn't the only one thinking this. I can't imagine there is a single player in the HOF with numbers like that
1/19/2010 3:47 PM
robusk
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Quote: Originally Posted By disaacs on 1/19/2010
Those SP/RP requirements could potentially screw over a player like http://www.whatifsports.com/hbd/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx?pid=37494

He's currently over the 50G threshold, but a few seasons below that and he'll no longer be eligible, even though I believe he's clearly a HOFer. It will be moot if he can get 1 more AS appearance, but if he doesn't...then what?

Clearly?
1/19/2010 3:57 PM
robusk
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Heh.
1/19/2010 3:58 PM
trsnoke
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If every team gets 5 votes and it takes a minimum of 17 votes to induct a player, the max that any world can vote in in one year is 9, right? I'm sure it'll be less as some owners vote for their own fringe guys and some guys are consensus HOF, taking a lot of votes. The fringe guys may have a tough time making in unless not enough consensus guys have retired yet. I'll have to check my worlds' career leader boards to see how many no-brainers (imo) have retired. It'll make for some fun World chats!
1/19/2010 4:11 PM
hartjh14
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I can't wait until the collusion accusations start flying...
1/19/2010 4:15 PM
volk
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IMO the 50G avg for relievers is a tad high.

While long-relievers and set-up guys frequently appear in more than 50 games per season, guys like that don't put up the "glamour numbers" that are going to garner votes (wins, saves, strikeouts). A good case in point would be Mr. McEnroe posted above. Very impressive ERA and OAV, but people immediately scoff at the idea of him being in the Hall because he didn't put up the wins or saves.

The relief role that most people are going to deem Hall-worthy would be that of closer. And while LR and SU frequently appear in 50+ games, I think that would be on the high end of the scale for closers, since most people limit their use to a strict set of circumstances (leading by 3 or less in the 9th). They rarely come in at all during losses and blowouts. As an example, my longtime closer in Clemente will be an automatic nomination because he made 7 AS teams and won 3 FoY awards. However, if one of those seasons had gone south and he ended up with 6 AS and 2 FoY, he'd be on the outside looking in because he only averaged 49 games per season, and that seemed right on the average with the other closers of his day.

So, long story short, I'd be all in favor of lowering the 50G average for relievers, as patrick stated earlier can be easily done.
1/19/2010 4:23 PM
benj13blue
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The problem is using an average, period, because it can be skewed by a few seasons that are far below the limit (having been used as a late-season call-up before his rookie year, for example, could now come back to haunt a player).

In real life, it's less of a problem because few HOF candidates are going to hang on if they're not full-time players.

In HBD, players will stick around as long as you'll give them a contract.

As I pointed out earlier in this thread, the use of an average even allows for the possibility that a malicious owner could sabotage the HOF candidacy of a player who played for an owner he particularly dislikes (and we all know there are plenty of malicious owners playing HBD) by just giving him a game or two a season until his average drops below the limit.
1/19/2010 4:32 PM
bjohara1
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so, are hall of famers announced for each world already? Or do we have to wait until he beginning of next season?
1/19/2010 4:33 PM
smoelheim
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Quote: Originally posted by TheJester74 on 1/18/2010
Quote: Originally posted by volk on 1/18/2010Hey Patrick,
I know you'll be making a formal announcement tomorrow. I just thought of one more question though.

In MVP voting, if an owner doesn't cast a ballot, the sim casts one for him. After the winner is announced, a breakdown of voting always adds up to 32 (I'm assuming this is true, and not that every owner in my world votes every season). Will the same hold true for the HOF? There's a lot of concern in this thread that some deserving players won't be voted in due to too many new owners not casting votes. But if the HOF works like MVP/Cy Young, that wouldn't be an issue if the sim submitted a ballot in place of owners that neglect to.

Obviously I can't answer how WifS is going to do it, but in a world that I was running the blog we discussed having a HoF for a while and voting was one of the tougher issues due varying levels of participation.

The criteria we came up with was 75% yes and at least 12 yes votes.

I like this, it sounds very reasonable.
1/19/2010 4:37 PM
toddcommish
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Quote: Originally Posted By domiisgod on 1/19/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By disaacs on 1/19/2010

Those SP/RP requirements could potentially screw over a player like http://www.whatifsports.com/hbd/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx?pid=37494

He's currently over the 50G threshold, but a few seasons below that and he'll no longer be eligible, even though I believe he's clearly a HOFer. It will be moot if he can get 1 more AS appearance, but if he doesn't...then what?






81 wins and 160 saves, how does that make him HOF material ?

My best clsoers can save that many that in 3-4 seasons and any SP worth his salt can win 81 in 4 seasons...

1st half = true

2nd half = NOT True. Pitchers were calibrated to 2007-2009 MLB usage; in other words, 5-man rotations, with pitch counts that only Sparky would love (that's Sparky Anderson, not Sim Sparky). With 32 starts per year (not 40), 20-game winners are a rarity, and nobody (except maybe Donnie Brown) wins 80-games in a four-year stretch.
1/19/2010 4:39 PM
mosley80
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You said...

"User nominations (regular season stats only)-
Position players: 10+ years of ML experience with 400+ PA per season.
Relief pitchers: 10+ years of ML experience with 50+ G per season.
Starting pitchers: 10+ years of ML experience with 150+ IP per season."

I am assuming that those numbers are averages and not hard figures. Otherwise some worthwhile players could get derailed by one season of injury.

1/19/2010 4:40 PM
smoelheim
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Quote: Originally posted by patrickm885 on 1/19/2010Actually just found an error with the eligibility requirements that I posted (apologies)

For relievers it's 50G per season for 10+ ML seasons and for starting pitchers it's 150IP per season for 10+ ML seasons.

It's been updated in this thread and the update announcement.

You still haven't distinguished how you identify starting pitchers, and how you identify relievers. As several posters have stated, many pitchers play both roles during their careers.
1/19/2010 4:42 PM
hypnotoad
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In HD, when players get drafted by the NBA, I believe the school or coach get a prestige boost.
Will there be any in-game effect like that in HBD?
1/19/2010 4:55 PM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By disaacs on 1/19/2010
Those SP/RP requirements could potentially screw over a player like http://www.whatifsports.com/hbd/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx?pid=37494

He's currently over the 50G threshold, but a few seasons below that and he'll no longer be eligible, even though I believe he's clearly a HOFer. It will be moot if he can get 1 more AS appearance, but if he doesn't...then what?



How in the hell is this guy a HOFer?
1/19/2010 4:56 PM
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