one of the biggest plays of the game was Nink being offsides on 3rd and 8....they had a stop deep in NYG territory and had a chance for good starting position, but it all went out the window

not only did he jump offsides, but it looked like he was lined up offsides to begin with.....terrible play....big turning point

From NFL.com:

"Well, he was trying to do (what he's coached to do), which is: 'Don't score. Get down to the 1-inch line, and pat it down to declare yourself down,'" said offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride. "But no one touched him, and he rolled into the end zone. He was sitting down, trying to get down."

Gilbride affirmed that the plan, at the time, was to let kicker Lawrence Tynes win it. Gilbride said, "We were just gonna run the clock out, and kick the field goal with minimum time, and then all of a sudden they jumped away, and take a chance and try to let him score a touchdown, which would normally be a heck of a gamble, having to drive 80 yards. But at least this way they had a chance. The other way, they weren't gonna get a chance. We were gonna run out the clock."

I don’t fault Bradshaw for scoring in that situation – with the adrenaline rushing, closing seconds of the Superbowl – but it sure seems like he should have known what the coaches’ expectations were. But then that again begs the question of why they weren't kneeling, if that's the result they wanted.

 

Posted by Jtpsops on 2/5/2012 10:37:00 PM (view original):
Still...I'd rather have Brady with no timeouts and 20 seconds to get into FG range, than 57 seconds and 1 TO to go 80 yards.

And it's hard to blame Bradshaw - he was plowing in to get through blockers, then suddenly it was all open air. I'm sure he wasn't expecting a free ride into the endzone.

I'd prefer him to have to score the TD with 57 seconds and the time out. And everyone is taliking about the chip shot 33 yarder to win the game like its automatic... how did that 31 yard FG to tie the game go 2 weeks ago?

I'd have prefered the TD as well, but had they just taken a knee at the 6, it was a 23 yarder.  If Bradshaw gets down at the 1 and they kick it, it's an extra point.  The only way I take the field goal over the TD is if I can completely run out the clock with the FG.

Sorry, but you're both wrong. Assume the Pats have to get to the 35 to make it a reasonable bet for Gostkowski (52 yarder).  That leaves the following options:

A) 45 yards in 23 seconds with no timeouts
B) 80 yards in 57 seconds with one timeout

I think B is a heck of a lot more likely with the Patriots. I'd have felt reasonably safe with option A, especially since anything over 40-45 is far from a lock.

Posted by edsortails on 2/6/2012 10:14:00 AM (view original):
one of the biggest plays of the game was Nink being offsides on 3rd and 8....they had a stop deep in NYG territory and had a chance for good starting position, but it all went out the window

not only did he jump offsides, but it looked like he was lined up offsides to begin with.....terrible play....big turning point

You can always pull one of those out.   NYG holding to negate a 1st down in NE territory.    And, quite honestly, it didn't look like a hold.

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/6/2012 10:49:00 AM (view original):

Posted by edsortails on 2/6/2012 10:14:00 AM (view original):
one of the biggest plays of the game was Nink being offsides on 3rd and 8....they had a stop deep in NYG territory and had a chance for good starting position, but it all went out the window

not only did he jump offsides, but it looked like he was lined up offsides to begin with.....terrible play....big turning point

You can always pull one of those out.   NYG holding to negate a 1st down in NE territory.    And, quite honestly, it didn't look like a hold.

HUGE, TERRIBLE CALL

ZEBRAS TRYING TO GIVE IT TO PATSIES

I think the situation and the location made it worse....

3rd and long stops should be easy, but NE made them an adventure

Posted by Jtpsops on 2/6/2012 10:28:00 AM (view original):
Sorry, but you're both wrong. Assume the Pats have to get to the 35 to make it a reasonable bet for Gostkowski (52 yarder).  That leaves the following options:

A) 45 yards in 23 seconds with no timeouts
B) 80 yards in 57 seconds with one timeout

I think B is a heck of a lot more likely with the Patriots. I'd have felt reasonably safe with option A, especially since anything over 40-45 is far from a lock.

Look, I can definitely see it both ways, but unless you're ******* your pants because "OMG, Tom Brady!", I think you feel reasonably safe in either situation.   And like I said earlier, I'd have preferred to make them burn the timeout -  but then I'd still take a shot at the TD.  All it takes is one reasonably big play to get into/near FG range.   I'd rather them have to drive the length of the field, even with the extra time.

All of that being said, if the Giants' plan was to milk the clock and kick the field goal, it's inexcusable if not everyone was clear on that plan.

I'm not saying that coaches are scared of Brady, but if you're not thinking "sh*t, I don't want to leave this guy any time on the clock or he could shred us" when they're planning how to approach that final minute or two, then something is wrong. Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Manning are not your average QBs, especially with their back to the wall in the 4th quarter.

Sure, but they were going to leave him some time, regardless, so I'd rather make him have to score a game-winning touchdown (which, for all of his postseason heroics, he's never really done) than get into field goal range.

 

It should also be noted here that I have a general hatred of kickers that borders on the irrational, so I'm usually pretty down on leaving things up to a kicker when there are other options available.

The Giants were in a no lose situation, as both scenarios play out well for the Giants.  But there is no doubt that most head coaches would rather leave a team 80 yards to go for a game winning TD in 57 seconds with 1 timeout than leave them 45 yards to go for a game winning FG in 23 seconds with no timeouts.  I have seen it many more times where a team scores with less than a minute to go to pull ahead by 3 or less, only to have the other team get 2-3 completions and move the ball from the 20 to the other team's 35 and kick a game winning FG.  On the other hand, Rarely have I seen a team score a GW TD in less than a minute.  And before you go all ape-$hit on me yelling about SF against New Orleans....  that drive took almost 90 seconds.  We're talking 57 seconds.  1 timeout.  And nothing short of a TD will do the trick. 

The other side of the coin is....  if you score the TD, you force the other team to perform under pressure.  If you take a knee, you force YOUR OWN kicker to perform under pressure.  Didn't work out so well for the Ravens 2 weeks ago.  Sometimes, that "chip shot" doesnt go through the uprights.

I don't necessarily disagree with all of that. But if you think you can get 2-3 substantial completions in 23 seconds with no timeouts - that would take a miracle. That's 8-12 seconds per play, assuming you get out of bounds each time. And even then, if you don't get inside the 25, it's still a 40+ yarder, which is no gimme with one second left and the Superbowl on the line.  Gostkowski is not Vinatieri.

And I'm not trying to be a contrarian here - in the SF game, I was totally disagreeing with people who said Davis should have kneeled, but that then would have left Brees with over a minute still, and then no time for SF to counter if NO scored. In this case, with 20 or so seconds left, I do think it would have been the right move. I have zero problem with the TD though, as I have to agree that you never take the winning points off the board if they're available.

we don't know if Gostkowski is Vinatieri.....we've never been able to put him in a position to have to find out



this is now the 2nd Super Bowl loss to the Giants where Tom Brady had the ball in his hands with enough time (not saying a ton of time, but "enough") to produce a game winning/tying drive.....and he didn't

if you are the Giants, I think you have to take the TD and make it a touchdown to beat you


of course, without taking a safety in the 1st quarter, all of these dynamics are different