The only other title in all of Hoops Dynasty history I am seeing before Cimmy took over Hawaii in Season 113 was Season 27 in Smith.

Known abusers are:
Swenske04
Doogan
Cimmy426
robinhood410
BDash

anyone others?

Wow, take a couple days on vacation in the woods, miss a lot.

As someone who spent the last 5 or so seasons commenting about something strange going on in Smith A10, and who made Smith my first departure in large part because of it, of course these revelations don't surprise me. I still don't support bans based on the information given, at least what I've seen (not that I've read every word posted here).

I would hope the bans are the result of found collusion, not a result of users finding this so-called "loophole" and exploiting it (apparently after reporting it). Of course, maybe that's not how things actually went down. Who knows?

What I know for sure is that it is on the developers to find and fix bugs and glitches, and provide a transparent and mystery-free game that doesn't invite collusion, which is the real cheating scandal, I suspect.

Hearing the other point of view, I think this thread overdid it.

Fix the logic (maybe you now need APs to unlock inform of redshirt? because I do get how definitely ruling out a redshirt could give you a boost to a recruit) and move on. It seems like CS should have taken the report more seriously when it was first reported and not let it get to this point.

I do not support lifetime bans. Or even removing coaches from their teams. The enjoyment I get out of this game is in no way tied to how draconian the punishment of others is.

Some sort of probation modeled on the NCAA probations could be fine. EDIT: If a punishment is necessary at all.

Posted by npb7768 on 11/1/2022 4:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by almersk on 11/1/2022 3:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gigrant on 11/1/2022 3:46:00 PM (view original):
i know enough. i guessed cimmy as one before today's posts. hate to see what these people are like in real life if they are this bent up on winning in a silly game. doogan's post make more sense now too. i hope these guys can find peace and self-confidence eventually.

Good lord you have no idea of what you speak. If you think you're going to start winning championships because you got these talented coaches banned for life, I think you're in for a rude awakening. Please do elaborate on how you just knew he was a cheater. I'd love to hear your evidence but I suspect it's just a "feeling" based on your lack of success against him. Since you're ready to slander at the drop of a hat, let's hear it. Whatcha got?

Deny, deny, deny, gasllight, insult, gaslight again, insult again, and never admit you're a cheater. Actually, the cheaters are the *real* victims!!

I cant get into Smith World to check old NT brackets, but i had stacked rosters at Miami of FL and then Kentucky. Wonder if i lost to any of these juiced up rosters.

I didn't cheat, genius.That's why I'm still posting. Unfortunately, they can't defend themselves on here because they've already been banned. I think the percentage of users who agree with a lifetime ban is far smaller than the narrative in here. People who don't really care that muchare not taking the time to post. The people who "just knew" that their competitors were cheating are the loudest, so it feels that way. I posit that this is not an accurate representation of opinions.

Posted by tmacfan12 on 11/1/2022 4:31:00 PM (view original):
Okay so I just took a look, in ALL of HD, every single world, Hawaii at D1 has won a total of 4 titles. Of those 4 in 10 worlds, 3 have come by Cimmy in the last 20 or so seasons he's played in Allen (From 113-134). So before he took over, 1 title ever. Suddenly in 20 seasons, Hawaii is a 3 time National Champ. They really must be the best coaches on the site or...

Dude, you have to be smarter than this.You just have to be.

Posted by topdogggbm on 11/1/2022 3:18:00 PM (view original):
Thank you for your comment JC14 and very well said. If that’s the big whopper, cool. But I think if someone decided to do that once or twice, cool. But it gets slimy when someone has 24 scholarships open on cycle 5.

As one user said in the discord, bending rules is one thing. Breaking them, stomping them into the ground, is another. (I’m only referring to Swenske at this point. I only know what YOU just mentioned regarding the others)

It’s super sad to me that almost the entire conference that I’ve rep’d as maybe THE best in the game, has now entered the steroid era of HD. Based off your list of names. It’s basically the whole conference of legends that I just mentioned, and also said I wasn’t pointing at them. Now they’re being pointed at unfortunately

(I wanna add that I love Barry Bonds and other steroid players. So I’m just seeing it for what it is. No porch forks. Just a crappy situation)

my friend, you are now where i was 10 years ago. an anti-cheating crusader who was somewhat crushed to find out the true nature of my reality. i'd never really stopped to consider the minds of those cheating. if it was as black and white to them as it was to me. if they'd even considered it as i had. i assumed the nameless abusers were raw cheaters without hope of redemption, just like you. it crushed me to find out how many of them i respected - veterans, conference mates, friends. i could barely continue playing this game. but talking to them opened my mind. it tooks months, years, but it opened my mind.

if you actually take the time to talk to those involved, i think you'll be glad you did. talk to those who until a couple hours ago, you respected. speak to them of your disappointment, and hear their stories in turn.

this is not me conding cheaters, or being ok with cheating existing in this game. by actions, i am probably the anti-cheating groups #1 ally in this game. i have to imagine i have submitted more proven recruiting expoits, serious ones, than everyone else in this thread put together. i even stuck around for the 3.0 beta, retired, just to put in hours breaking the new recruiting scheme, to do my part to keep you guys safe. the entire system of real time recruiting was hopelessly broken, and i got the entire thing removed. that was my crucade - a crucade i fought and won with just a few polite exchanges, without a single public thread, without invoking the wrath of the HD twitterati, without threats or rudeness.

how then do we get to a point where you are labelling me a cheating apologist? i think my actions speak louder than my words, but i'll admit, my words are highly imperfect. i speak too long, and poorly, and my words lack clarity. but you my friend, my friend who labels me a cheating apologist, need to open your mind. my hope for a long-term perspective on cheating, to treat our battle as a marathon instead of a sprint, and my hope for the damned, that they may yet be redeemed and may one day walk among us as allies... they are not the hopes of a naive fool. nor the rationalizations of a cheating apologist. they are the hopes of a man who long ago walked your path and who learned a great deal upon the journey.

Posted by almersk on 11/1/2022 4:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tmacfan12 on 11/1/2022 4:31:00 PM (view original):
Okay so I just took a look, in ALL of HD, every single world, Hawaii at D1 has won a total of 4 titles. Of those 4 in 10 worlds, 3 have come by Cimmy in the last 20 or so seasons he's played in Allen (From 113-134). So before he took over, 1 title ever. Suddenly in 20 seasons, Hawaii is a 3 time National Champ. They really must be the best coaches on the site or...

Dude, you have to be smarter than this.You just have to be.

This is called proof of abusing a recruiting system to the extreme, stop trying to distract from what is actually happening from calling into question people's intelligence. It is you who has put yourself on trial here, you can just stop posting and go away.

Posted by bpielcmc on 11/1/2022 4:49:00 PM (view original):
Hearing the other point of view, I think this thread overdid it.

Fix the logic (maybe you now need APs to unlock inform of redshirt? because I do get how definitely ruling out a redshirt could give you a boost to a recruit) and move on. It seems like CS should have taken the report more seriously when it was first reported and not let it get to this point.

I do not support lifetime bans. Or even removing coaches from their teams. The enjoyment I get out of this game is in no way tied to how draconian the punishment of others is.

Some sort of probation modeled on the NCAA probations could be fine. EDIT: If a punishment is necessary at all.

We have some reasonable posters now. Thank you to RiddleFace and bpielcmc for speaking up. Speak up if you agree that the punishment is out of wack. I am heartened by topdogg and shoe and some others that seem to be applying some reason to the situation, despite their concerns..

Posted by almersk on 11/1/2022 4:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by npb7768 on 11/1/2022 4:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by almersk on 11/1/2022 3:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gigrant on 11/1/2022 3:46:00 PM (view original):
i know enough. i guessed cimmy as one before today's posts. hate to see what these people are like in real life if they are this bent up on winning in a silly game. doogan's post make more sense now too. i hope these guys can find peace and self-confidence eventually.

Good lord you have no idea of what you speak. If you think you're going to start winning championships because you got these talented coaches banned for life, I think you're in for a rude awakening. Please do elaborate on how you just knew he was a cheater. I'd love to hear your evidence but I suspect it's just a "feeling" based on your lack of success against him. Since you're ready to slander at the drop of a hat, let's hear it. Whatcha got?

Deny, deny, deny, gasllight, insult, gaslight again, insult again, and never admit you're a cheater. Actually, the cheaters are the *real* victims!!

I cant get into Smith World to check old NT brackets, but i had stacked rosters at Miami of FL and then Kentucky. Wonder if i lost to any of these juiced up rosters.

I didn't cheat, genius.That's why I'm still posting. Unfortunately, they can't defend themselves on here because they've already been banned. I think the percentage of users who agree with a lifetime ban is far smaller than the narrative in here. People who don't really care that muchare not taking the time to post. The people who "just knew" that their competitors were cheating are the loudest, so it feels that way. I posit that this is not an accurate representation of opinions.

I just think 90% of the people don’t post at all, or don’t read this. I don’t think anyone is sitting there reading and saying “I really wanna post but I’m just gonna keep to myself on this one”

all the active forum people have commented basically. And even a bunch that are usually inactive. I think we have a very good representation here of how people feel about it. On both sides.

I’m not really all for lifetime bans. But I’m for a profile freeze. They can play with some other name that doesn’t have 300 season credits

i mentioned Barry bonds earlier. Most people would agree that he had Hall of fame Numbers pre steroids. But he’ll never be recognized as anything other than the steroid guy. That’s the difficulty with cheating and the price paid. You can never get a fair shake again no matter what.

Posted by tmacfan14 on 11/1/2022 4:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by almersk on 11/1/2022 4:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tmacfan12 on 11/1/2022 4:31:00 PM (view original):
Okay so I just took a look, in ALL of HD, every single world, Hawaii at D1 has won a total of 4 titles. Of those 4 in 10 worlds, 3 have come by Cimmy in the last 20 or so seasons he's played in Allen (From 113-134). So before he took over, 1 title ever. Suddenly in 20 seasons, Hawaii is a 3 time National Champ. They really must be the best coaches on the site or...

Dude, you have to be smarter than this.You just have to be.

This is called proof of abusing a recruiting system to the extreme, stop trying to distract from what is actually happening from calling into question people's intelligence. It is you who has put yourself on trial here, you can just stop posting and go away.

I'M NOT ON TRIAL. It is not my intent to insult your intelligence but you continue to shine a light on your lack thereof. How is comparing a highly successful coach's record at a school with that school's prior success evidence of anything? Seriously. You've been hurt and you have an agenda. I'll come to your conference and smoke you if you keep it up haha.

Posted by gillispie on 11/1/2022 4:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 11/1/2022 3:18:00 PM (view original):
Thank you for your comment JC14 and very well said. If that’s the big whopper, cool. But I think if someone decided to do that once or twice, cool. But it gets slimy when someone has 24 scholarships open on cycle 5.

As one user said in the discord, bending rules is one thing. Breaking them, stomping them into the ground, is another. (I’m only referring to Swenske at this point. I only know what YOU just mentioned regarding the others)

It’s super sad to me that almost the entire conference that I’ve rep’d as maybe THE best in the game, has now entered the steroid era of HD. Based off your list of names. It’s basically the whole conference of legends that I just mentioned, and also said I wasn’t pointing at them. Now they’re being pointed at unfortunately

(I wanna add that I love Barry Bonds and other steroid players. So I’m just seeing it for what it is. No porch forks. Just a crappy situation)

my friend, you are now where i was 10 years ago. an anti-cheating crusader who was somewhat crushed to find out the true nature of my reality. i'd never really stopped to consider the minds of those cheating. if it was as black and white to them as it was to me. if they'd even considered it as i had. i assumed the nameless abusers were raw cheaters without hope of redemption, just like you. it crushed me to find out how many of them i respected - veterans, conference mates, friends. i could barely continue playing this game. but talking to them opened my mind. it tooks months, years, but it opened my mind.

if you actually take the time to talk to those involved, i think you'll be glad you did. talk to those who until a couple hours ago, you respected. speak to them of your disappointment, and hear their stories in turn.

this is not me conding cheaters, or being ok with cheating existing in this game. by actions, i am probably the anti-cheating groups #1 ally in this game. i have to imagine i have submitted more proven recruiting expoits, serious ones, than everyone else in this thread put together. i even stuck around for the 3.0 beta, retired, just to put in hours breaking the new recruiting scheme, to do my part to keep you guys safe. the entire system of real time recruiting was hopelessly broken, and i got the entire thing removed. that was my crucade - a crucade i fought and won with just a few polite exchanges, without a single public thread, without invoking the wrath of the HD twitterati, without threats or rudeness.

how then do we get to a point where you are labelling me a cheating apologist? i think my actions speak louder than my words, but i'll admit, my words are highly imperfect. i speak too long, and poorly, and my words lack clarity. but you my friend, my friend who labels me a cheating apologist, need to open your mind. my hope for a long-term perspective on cheating, to treat our battle as a marathon instead of a sprint, and my hope for the damned, that they may yet be redeemed and may one day walk among us as allies... they are not the hopes of a naive fool. nor the rationalizations of a cheating apologist. they are the hopes of a man who long ago walked your path and who learned a great deal upon the journey.

Good grief Gil, twice in one day, I might actually start to read every word you write. Maybe I am just better prepared by reading another classic Russian novel right now: The Brothers Karamazov.

Posted by almersk on 11/1/2022 4:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tmacfan14 on 11/1/2022 4:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by almersk on 11/1/2022 4:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tmacfan12 on 11/1/2022 4:31:00 PM (view original):
Okay so I just took a look, in ALL of HD, every single world, Hawaii at D1 has won a total of 4 titles. Of those 4 in 10 worlds, 3 have come by Cimmy in the last 20 or so seasons he's played in Allen (From 113-134). So before he took over, 1 title ever. Suddenly in 20 seasons, Hawaii is a 3 time National Champ. They really must be the best coaches on the site or...

Dude, you have to be smarter than this.You just have to be.

This is called proof of abusing a recruiting system to the extreme, stop trying to distract from what is actually happening from calling into question people's intelligence. It is you who has put yourself on trial here, you can just stop posting and go away.

I'M NOT ON TRIAL. It is not my intent to insult your intelligence but you continue to shine a light on your lack thereof. How is comparing a highly successful coach's record at a school with that school's prior success evidence of anything? Seriously. You've been hurt and you have an agenda. I'll come to your conference and smoke you if you keep it up haha.

Don’t take it personal tho. If you’re not involved, you have nothing to worry about and you can play happily forever.

Recruiting at A prestige in D1 is a significant advantage in that many coaches simply cant (or wont) compete with A prestige teams for recruits. To keep an A prestige, you have to balance chasing the uber-studs with having reasonable back up plans. It's very hard to consistently do both even with A prestige, given how quickly good teams get to the back up level recruits. 40 APs commonly is enough to unlock the non-studs for A prestige teams, so basically coaches exploiting this got free back ups and could commit significantly more resources to the studs. Therefore, the argument that "they didn't use it on the elite players" holds absolutely no merit to me. This was an insanely huge advantage and coaches using even a bit of it had to know they were gaming the system to some extent at the expense of other coaches.

Regardless of this, these are simply good coaches. You cant get to D1 A prestige without knowing how to play the rest of the game. Based on what it presented, at the least for the A10 Smith group, it was found inadvertently and likely originally reported through the right channels. The FPG open with a discussion on sportsmanship as well as discuss loopholes. To me, based on the facts in the preceding paragraph, any good coach would realize they were getting a significant advantage which does not meet the sportmanship baseline. Call it a loophole or a gamble or whatever, but an unbiased observer would recognize they were not playing fairly. I continue to support reverting their accounts back to rookie D3 accounts. I dont really care if their form accolades/credits are stripped, that is what it is to me. Just dont think they should continue to benefit from a loophole I believe they new they were exploiting. A complete ban also seems unfitting.

Posted by almersk on 11/1/2022 4:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tmacfan14 on 11/1/2022 4:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by almersk on 11/1/2022 4:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tmacfan12 on 11/1/2022 4:31:00 PM (view original):
Okay so I just took a look, in ALL of HD, every single world, Hawaii at D1 has won a total of 4 titles. Of those 4 in 10 worlds, 3 have come by Cimmy in the last 20 or so seasons he's played in Allen (From 113-134). So before he took over, 1 title ever. Suddenly in 20 seasons, Hawaii is a 3 time National Champ. They really must be the best coaches on the site or...

Dude, you have to be smarter than this.You just have to be.

This is called proof of abusing a recruiting system to the extreme, stop trying to distract from what is actually happening from calling into question people's intelligence. It is you who has put yourself on trial here, you can just stop posting and go away.

I'M NOT ON TRIAL. It is not my intent to insult your intelligence but you continue to shine a light on your lack thereof. How is comparing a highly successful coach's record at a school with that school's prior success evidence of anything? Seriously. You've been hurt and you have an agenda. I'll come to your conference and smoke you if you keep it up haha.

You'll come to my conference? Come through dawg, I'll pay for your team.

Also how can I compare the fact that Hawaii played what, 1500 TOTAL seasons of HD gameplay before Cimmy took over, and then in 20 seasons he won 3 NC!?!?!? Yeah idk, my intelligence is sooo off, Im a complete dumb dumb