Another Tragedy Caused by an Armed Citizen Topic

This post has a rating of , which is below the default threshold.
He was in a tall tower. The police couldnt touch him, but locals were able to come close enough to get him to duck and shoot through drain vents. Many lives were saved.

In a left wing world more people would have died.
2/7/2011 8:39 PM
Mike, how is it that on the one hand :
most people are incapable of shooting another human being,
But on the other hand:
more guns=more shootings?

According to your first argument most people simply CAN NOT shoot another person.

If that is true, then seemingly the number of guns wouldn't / couldn't change that.

So you basically have to be arguing for no guns, which is utopian.

What do you think the purpose of the "air marshalls" was? Do you believe that idea is also going to lead to more shootings?
2/7/2011 9:15 PM
Quote post by antonsirius on 2/7/2011 10:03:00 AM:
 
1)      As far as 'more guns = less shootings" go, I think you're overlooking the 'suicide by cop' scenario - such as the Florida school board meeting situation that swamp used to start his initial thread. If the shooter is looking to be shot, and possibly take some people with them, the presence of guns isn't a deterrent, it's an encouragement.
 
 
Certainly that is valid. However,, would say that example is far more infrequent than the typical shooting spree scenario.
I mean, is there a solution that will eliminate violent crime altogether? If not, then I think responsible armed citizenry has far more pros than cons.


2)       I don't at all agree with that 'ranged conflict' argument. If you're talking about a sniper in a tower, arming the faculty (or anybody else) won't make any difference at all. And Loughner proved quite clearly that anyone with a handgun can and will open fire from the middle of a crowd.
 
Sure some people may, but the majority do not. 
Do we know if Laughner being in the middle of a crowd was a factor in the inability for any armed person to take him out before he killed and wounded so many?
In other words, were there armed officials there who could not put him down for fear of hitting a member of the crowd?
2/7/2011 9:30 PM
Any response from Anton about the ability of armed locals to help stop the Texas tower sniper?
2/8/2011 5:52 AM
This post has a rating of , which is below the default threshold.
This post has a rating of , which is below the default threshold.
Posted by meanceprimea on 2/7/2011 9:30:00 PM (view original):
Quote post by antonsirius on 2/7/2011 10:03:00 AM:
 
1)      As far as 'more guns = less shootings" go, I think you're overlooking the 'suicide by cop' scenario - such as the Florida school board meeting situation that swamp used to start his initial thread. If the shooter is looking to be shot, and possibly take some people with them, the presence of guns isn't a deterrent, it's an encouragement.
 
 
Certainly that is valid. However,, would say that example is far more infrequent than the typical shooting spree scenario.
I mean, is there a solution that will eliminate violent crime altogether? If not, then I think responsible armed citizenry has far more pros than cons.


2)       I don't at all agree with that 'ranged conflict' argument. If you're talking about a sniper in a tower, arming the faculty (or anybody else) won't make any difference at all. And Loughner proved quite clearly that anyone with a handgun can and will open fire from the middle of a crowd.
 
Sure some people may, but the majority do not. 
Do we know if Laughner being in the middle of a crowd was a factor in the inability for any armed person to take him out before he killed and wounded so many?
In other words, were there armed officials there who could not put him down for fear of hitting a member of the crowd?
1) They're both infrequent. I haven't really seen anything to indicate whether one scenario happens more frequently than the other.

I agree that 'responsible armed citizenry' would in all likelihood be a net plus. The real issue for me is the 'responsible' part, and how much of a negative 'irresponsible armed citizenry' would be. That's where the risk/reward analysis gets really dicey.

2) Loughner shot as many people as he did because of the extended magazine on his Glock. My understanding he that he got taken down when he had to try and reload - he dropped his second magazine, someone grabbed it before he could pick it up, and then he got tackled.

It'd only take about half a minute to exhaust one magazine on semi-auto, so I don't think there wouldn't have been a lot of time for return fire, obstructed or otherwise, even if there had been anyone there armed.
2/8/2011 12:27 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/8/2011 9:44:00 AM (view original):
Posted by swamphawk22 on 2/7/2011 8:39:00 PM (view original):
He was in a tall tower. The police couldnt touch him, but locals were able to come close enough to get him to duck and shoot through drain vents. Many lives were saved.

In a left wing world more people would have died.

Are you implying that armed locals were allowed to get near him while he held the police at bay?

The police didnt have the training or weapons to pin down the sniper in the tower. You have never read about this case?
2/8/2011 3:09 PM
This post has a rating of , which is below the default threshold.
Texas!
2/8/2011 4:04 PM
Posted by swamphawk22 on 2/8/2011 4:04:00 PM (view original):
Texas!
So the answer about the third world country would be yes?
2/8/2011 4:11 PM
Posted by rcrusso on 2/8/2011 4:11:00 PM (view original):
Posted by swamphawk22 on 2/8/2011 4:04:00 PM (view original):
Texas!
So the answer about the third world country would be yes?
If a big slice of American Values is third world, yes!
2/8/2011 5:06 PM

American Values? What a crock of red neck crap! Texas should have never been allowed to become a state! And the last I heard they wanted to pull out of the union and I say GOOD F'n RIDENCE!

2/8/2011 5:20 PM
So Texas trains and arms it's citizens better than it does it's police force?   That just seems crazy.  And a tad unbelieveable.
2/8/2011 5:57 PM
◂ Prev 1...17|18|19|20|21...33 Next ▸
Another Tragedy Caused by an Armed Citizen Topic

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2025 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.