HD prior to 2007 / Questions Topic

moy - maybe you know somethin I don't, I tend to put 20 or 30 pts into study hall on half my seniors these days, because they are done.

In the old days, I used to sub coach for a couple of guys, sometimes whole seasons, pretty good coaches, when they would come back to their own team, they often were amazed at how much their guys changed, I was not amazed, their practice settings were atrocious. Also, in the old days as we moved up thru the ranks, often I would cherry pick top d2, mid level d1 teams, and finally major d1 teams, these teams were often coached by the cream of the crop, practice settings, terrible by and large, every once in a while, I would take a team over and learn something about practice settings, but normally I would shake my head.

Again, maybe I am missing somethink that is remarkable about practice planning these days, I look at the sitemail sent day 2 of the game, set time to what the assistant tells me, and wait for next season, if they are maxed out, I put the skill at a minimum, and send the kid to study hall.

11/8/2009 10:37 AM
Quote: Originally Posted By oldresorter on 11/08/2009
moy - maybe you know somethin I don't, I tend to put 20 or 30 pts into study hall on half my seniors these days, because they are done.

In the old days, I used to sub coach for a couple of guys, sometimes whole seasons, pretty good coaches, when they would come back to their own team, they often were amazed at how much their guys changed, I was not amazed, their practice settings were atrocious. Also, in the old days as we moved up thru the ranks, often I would cherry pick top d2, mid level d1 teams, and finally major d1 teams, these teams were often coached by the cream of the crop, practice settings, terrible by and large, every once in a while, I would take a team over and learn something about practice settings, but normally I would shake my head.

Again, maybe I am missing somethink that is remarkable about practice planning these days, I look at the sitemail sent day 2 of the game, set time to what the assistant tells me, and wait for next season, if they are maxed out, I put the skill at a minimum, and send the kid to study hall.



OR - I see your point. I don't know if that means less control than in the past. It was pretty basic imo in the past as I mentioned above. I like that some players will improve in FTs/SB/DEF now. I hated that those categories were a waste of practice minutes in the past. I think WE could be worked into the in-season development of recruits more w/ potential... making that attribute more inline with the speed of player development (since off-season improvement is very small now).

Many of my frosh despite being top recruits get very little PT (8-12 mpg) so they don't improve a ton freshmen year (relative to other coaches). they improve more than most coaches at soph season cause they still have room to grow (i.e not all 90s in every categoory)- despite the emails saying they are limited growth. I don't even plan on having my players around senoir season... the good ones are always gone despite only avg stats :(
11/8/2009 11:13 AM
This post could not be converted. To view the original post's thread, click here.
11/8/2009 11:18 AM
Quote: Originally Posted By oldresorter on 11/08/2009
moy - maybe you know somethin I don't, I tend to put 20 or 30 pts into study hall on half my seniors these days, because they are done.

In the old days, I used to sub coach for a couple of guys, sometimes whole seasons, pretty good coaches, when they would come back to their own team, they often were amazed at how much their guys changed, I was not amazed, their practice settings were atrocious. Also, in the old days as we moved up thru the ranks, often I would cherry pick top d2, mid level d1 teams, and finally major d1 teams, these teams were often coached by the cream of the crop, practice settings, terrible by and large, every once in a while, I would take a team over and learn something about practice settings, but normally I would shake my head.

Again, maybe I am missing somethink that is remarkable about practice planning these days, I look at the sitemail sent day 2 of the game, set time to what the assistant tells me, and wait for next season, if they are maxed out, I put the skill at a minimum, and send the kid to study hall.



It was very interesting to see practice plans of different coaches. Everyone does things a little different but I was often scratching my head. Some very good coaches weren't that good at player development. Potential has taken away that part of the game though.
11/8/2009 11:44 AM
shockingly, a lot of long term coaches might argue we have less overall control now than we did a couple years ago.

is that progress?
11/8/2009 12:26 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By mullycj on 11/08/2009we all know your hard on for potential ..but that doesn mean you have to toss out blatant mis truths. You can argue if pre/post potential is more fun. But saying you have more control over player development in post potential just kills any other credibility
yeah - cause your opinion is better than mine, and of course - your opinion is truth.

I think potential can be beter (as I mentioned in my post) by WE being worked into the in-season development of recruits more... making the WE attribute more in line with the speed and potential of player development (since off-season improvement is very small now).

I also think the emails from the AC are stupid. Let the coaches figure it out themselves based on FSS and in-season developement.

11/8/2009 12:41 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By kelby_03 on 11/08/2009
It was very interesting to see practice plans of different coaches. Everyone does things a little different but I was often scratching my head. Some very good coaches weren't that good at player development. Potential has taken away that part of the game though.
I agree on all points kelb. Me personally - I found player development to be one of the easier parts of the old game to figure out - it was so systematic (more than the gameplanning and recruiting pieces at the time). Recruit players with High DEF/SB/FT% and use those extra minutes you saved to boost those faster moving categories like BH/PAS/PE, etc quicker. Also high WE players would gain a ton in the offseason - so making WE a priority was a must in the old days. Now I think WE doesn't mean a thing :(
11/8/2009 12:47 PM
Shifting away from potential and to baseline prestige: doesn't a higher baseline prestige result in coaches getting fired? Maybe that is an incorrect assumption on my part, but I think the BCS schools would be harder to get to without baseline prestige. Those are generally the schools that people want to coach, and if those jobs were easier to keep, there would be less turnover. I think the real problem for the lower level DI schools is the money given to conferences for post-season success. I would favor awarding some money to schools but not conferences.
11/8/2009 5:28 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By kkyutzy on 11/07/2009
1) Recruiting at DIII would make no sense with FSS.

Agreed. This is an issue they need to address, either by getting rid of this at DIII, or making it more affordable at DIII.

2) My practice plan is obsolete unless I follow what the players FSS told me to do.

Basically agreed.

3) Gameplanning now is in my opinion minor in outcomes of the game.

That I don't really agree with.

A) What was the difference in the game prior to Nov. 2007?

B) Who are some of the coaches that asked for POTENTIAL and how many of them really like it?

It wasn't necessarily coaches asking or not asking for it. It was WIS trying to enhance the game.

The original implementation was awful. They've fixed a lot of the major kinks, and overall, I like potential and think it's better than the formulaic system that was in place previously. But they still have one or two major areas to fix before I think it will really work as hoped.

C) As I read the forums there is so much negative talk going on it would make me to think this is a really terrible game. Why does everyone want to be so negative? That does not encourage anyone to hang around and pay to play.

It's frustrating to see some of the same issues over and over and over for a period of years, especially with they're major issues. That said, I agree there it too much negativity, and I've gone out of my way this year to point out positives whenever applicable.

D) Why does everyone compare HD to real life? This is a simulation game, it should not mimic real life. I don't even think there should be baseline PRESTIGE. If you aren't a good coach you schools prestige should be able to go to F. If your a good coach your prestige should jump up the same as anyone else's has the capability to.

I have long said that one of the keys to HD is finding the balance between real life and HD, with the guiding question being not, "How is this done in real life?", but rather, "What's the best way to do this for HD?"

E) Is it everyone that thinks things are bad or just veterans that aren't winning as much as they think they should? Maybe some credit goes to some newer coaches that are successful.

This may be the case for some, but I think it's no more than a minor point. Many of the same complaints have been around for years.

Appreciate the thoughtful thread.
11/9/2009 1:25 AM
Another thing to keep in mind is that, in general, non-BCS schools have far more success in HD than in real life, and I'm quite sure that's by design.

And while I think that they could stand to loosen up prestige barriers for perenially successful low/mid teams, I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing that there's a bump for an ACC team vs. a comparable Big Sky team. I actually think it's a good example of WIS finding balance between a little realism and what's best for HD.
11/9/2009 1:28 AM
moy, I definitely think we have less control over player development than we did in the past. Point taken that we were more limited with certain attributes under the old system, but we still had more of an opportunity to mold a player how we wanted to, as opposed to how it is now pre-ordained by the sim.
11/9/2009 1:29 AM
Quote: Originally Posted By dalter on 11/09/2009moy, I definitely think we have less control over player development than we did in the past. Point taken that we were more limited with certain attributes under the old system, but we still had more of an opportunity to mold a player how we wanted to, as opposed to how it is now pre-ordained by the sim.
Yeah you just had to find that pf with 21 per and by the time he graduated you could have him to 50+ if you wanted to.
11/9/2009 9:46 AM
To say that the smaller schools dont have a chance is simply not true. The key is retainment of coaches. But just look at the Big West in Naismith (last season 3 Sweet 16 teams, this season #1 and #10 team in the country, 10 plus seasons top 10 RPI conference and a National Champion) AND the Moutain West in Tark (last season #1 or #2 RPI conference, last two Tark National Champions from different schools.)

Baseline prestige is needed for 1 reason job hiring process. After that you can throw it out the window. The reason is supply and demand. There will always be more coaches who want to be at UNC than at a smaller school. What they should change is how prestige works at a midmajor once a former coach leaves. They need to lower the current prestige so a human coach will be qualified. Otherwise what ends up happening is it goes sim controlled and the school is ruined.

Gameplanning is still very important and has a big impact on the game. If the results seems consistantly random, you're probably doing something wrong (Granted there will always be the occasional head scratcher).

Recruiting should be the most important part of the game.

11/9/2009 10:57 AM
Bump...

I never took the time to ride the way-back machine to the 2009 HD Forum, but there's a lot of good stuff back there.
Interesting discussion here about potential, etc.
7/25/2016 4:09 PM
Posted by zhawks on 11/7/2009 6:53:00 PM (view original):
Potential would be a fantastic addition if it was implemented correctly. As of now it is not only completely unrealistic, as all players max out very quickly and there is no variation as to how players go about reaching their potentials and it has completely destroyed the ability to develop your players how you as coach want to.
my main issue is and will always be defense.....it should be more like work ethic imo. you can always play better defense if you cannot do anything else...rebounding as well to a lesser extent....Pre 2007 I really only played just to play and dont remember much other than i was horrible at recruiting and that i jumped around too much
7/25/2016 5:08 PM
◂ Prev 123 Next ▸
HD prior to 2007 / Questions Topic

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2026 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.