So Far it is working. Besides I did some research. 13 teams out of the top 25 in Div III (Crum) play Man-to-Man. Isn't that what this game is about? Using your own style to try and win? Maybe I am missing something.

It is supposed to be about using your own style to win, but really what this whole argument comes down to is that there is not a huge difference in the types of D you can play. That is why we are telling you that you should play whichever defense your players have the highest IQ in. On your team that is Zone.

It is possible to switch what defense your team plays, but for that to payoff it will take 3 whole seasons of dedicated M2M practice. Then by the 4th season you will be able to play M2M more efficiently then Zone.

So feel free to switch to Man, but just realize that you will be somewhat throwing 3 seasons away. Almost everyone moves up to D2 after 2-3 seasons which makes switching anything a horrible option for new coaches.

That's a valid point. If you plan on trying to move to DII shortly, switching defenses is definitely a bad idea. If you plan on staying at your current school longer term, then feel free to switch.

And while it will definitely hinder your team's performance for a while, I'd say it's more like 1-2 seasons ... saying it will take 3-4 isn't true, imo. The high iq zone guys he inherited will be long gone before then.

very interesting thread poordude,

some excelelnt advice from several really good coaches,

i would like to echo what brianx said about your rebounding weakness.

and, although i tend to agree with those who sa that zone would be your best bet for a deep nt run this season, when i look at you r roster, i admit it does scream "M2M!"

your ath and sp are bad. your rebounding is awful. these two things make zone a very questionable choice to fit to this talent.

add to that the fact that the DE ratings are outstanding, and it almost starts to makes sense that DE might work better despite poor IQs (I am still on the fence, but just trying to play devil's advocate agaisnt some really good advice youve gotten)

when i look at your RE, ATH and SP, I do not see a team that could make the NT running a zone, or, if they did make it in, they surely wouldnt get very far.

to be honest, i would be surprised if a team with good m2m IQs could do much with this team. Others have praised it as something of a "superteam" with 6 seniors, etc. but i see glaring weaknesses and while you may be able to continue your success through the regular season in a weak conference, i would be somewhat suprised if you won one NT game. and i would be absloutely shocked if you won two. and i dont care what D you play. there is just not enough RE, ath sp there to win consistently against good teams.

so, while i would normally agree with the fellas here regarding staying with the defense you find, i do see some logical reasons why m2m could work here, even ith the IQ disadvantage.

I will say that i have seen i coach run a zone with F IQs and i think he made it to the sweet16. it shocked me. and for a while i assumed IQs did not matter. or didnt matter for a zone. but then i see other information that contradicts that and reassures me that IQs DO matter.

so, for me, i am still trying to figure this thing out and while it would seem to go against "the book" to play m2m when your zone Iqs are better... i guess you gotta do whatever floats your boat!

Quote: Originally Posted By kspoorman on 11/25/2009So Far it is working. Besides I did some research. 13 teams out of the top 25 in Div III (Crum) play Man-to-Man. Isn't that what this game is about? Using your own style to try and win? Maybe I am missing something.

the only thing you are missing is that i think most folks think of it this way:

"TRY TO WIN AT ALL COSTS, and try to use your own styles toward that goal as much as you can." (this type of coach might prefer m2m in real life and hate zone, but if zoem gave him a better chance to when in a particular season, thats what he would do)

your approach, which i do see, but is probably less common than the just win baby approach above is:

"USE YOUR PRE-DETERMINED STYLE AT ALL COSTS, and then, within that framework, try to win as mant games as you can." (this coach makes a predetermined decision about the school he will coach at, or the type of O or D he will use, or the tempo of his offense,e tc and then hopes that he can be succesful)

I think you are in this second group, poordude. Now that doesnt mean that m2m is clearly the wrong decision. i can see some reasons why it might work beterr than zone in this case, but your approach seems to rule out the use of zone, whether it is the best defense (the one that will win you the most games) or not.

also, im not sure you are making a valid point as my guess would be the other 12 teams that play m2m have high iqs in it.

i dont think anyone is arguing that m2m is an inferior defense, the question is just whether it is the best defense for you in the short term given your high IQs in zone.

You know.. call me crazy, but if you want to rock the M2M, go ahead and do it. I am not sold on IQ's being of the upmost importance. Last year, my Lycoming squad was floundering around in mediocrity for half of the season (RPI like 120's-140's), and I switched to a FCP for the rest of the season (their ratings were very press friendly) and turned things around almost immediately - riding it to a S16.

But I also agree with Ole Dave - that team is not making a deep tourney run either way. Just don't get your hopes quite yet. (Sorry if that sounds mean... just trying to be realistic).

Do whatever you want. Seriously, this game is about having fun. If you have fun trying a new defense, do that.

And I absolutely disagree that it will take 3-4 years to get going if you change now. No disrespect to pork and his incredible resume, but that is just wrong, especially when it comes to D3. IQs set teams apart at D1 and, to some extent, D2. There is more talent discrepancy at D3, and that is what sets teams apart.

Quote: Originally posted by jpmills3 on 11/25/2009You know.. call me crazy, but if you want to rock the M2M, go ahead and do it.  I am not sold on IQ's being of the upmost importance.  Last year, my Lycoming squad was floundering around in mediocrity for half of the season (RPI like 120's-140's), and I switched to a FCP for the rest of the season (their ratings were very press friendly) and turned things around almost immediately - riding it to a S16. 

Yup. I remember this. He had solid IQs, but could not do anything with his zone losing to teams he was even better then. I suggested a zone/press even with bad press IQ and he ended up winning the CT if I recall correctly (beating my team) and advancing in the NT. I don't think IQ is as important as some coaches believe and multiple ones have proven it time and time again.

No offense meant to kspoorman but I think his team is a perfect example what some coaches complain about the most.

Great rating teams have a miserable, or at least a down, year and teams with miserable core ratings have great years. I guess Team Chemistry is an added part of the SIM. There is just no stat for it.

Keep doing what your doing if you're winning poorman. If it works, it works. But I will agree that when your Sr's go I think your going to struggle due to the "upperclassmen aroma" being gone.

Quote: Originally Posted By westcoast22 on 11/25/2009
No offense meant to kspoorman but I think his team is a perfect example what some coaches complain about the most.

Great rating teams have a miserable, or at least a down, year and teams with miserable core ratings have great years. I guess Team Chemistry is an added part of the SIM. There is just no stat for it.

Keep doing what your doing if you're winning poorman. If it works, it works. But I will agree that when your Sr's go I think your going to struggle due to the "upperclassmen aroma" being gone.

I'm not trying to be an ***, but what team has he beaten with significantly better cores?

Even La Roche, with their gaudy RPI, isn't that good ratings-wise. Better than his team perhaps, but not by a ton.

He just hasn't run in to a really talented team other than Suffolk yet, and when that happens, I think we'll have more to look at.

Quote: Originally Posted By furry_nipps on 11/25/2009

Quote: Originally posted by jpmills3 on 11/25/2009
You know.. call me crazy, but if you want to rock the M2M, go ahead and do it. I am not sold on IQ's being of the upmost importance. Last year, my Lycoming squad was floundering around in mediocrity for half of the season (RPI like 120's-140's), and I switched to a FCP for the rest of the season (their ratings were very press friendly) and turned things around almost immediately - riding it to a S16.

Yup. I remember this. He had solid IQs, but could not do anything with his zone losing to teams he was even better then. I suggested a zone/press even with bad press IQ and he ended up winning the CT if I recall correctly (beating my team) and advancing in the NT. I don't think IQ is as important as some coaches believe and multiple ones have proven it time and time again.

You are right Furry. I didn't have the balls to go against IQ's until you brought up the combo option (i ended up just going straight press). Glad I listened to you :)