Rebuilding Topic

tecwrg
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 1/19/2010

Did that really have to be said? I just assumed everyone knew you could acquire players outside of the draft and internationals. How odd that someone didn't.

When one is so busy cluttering up the forums with pointless commentary on other peoples posts, they don't really have time to pick up the finer points of the game. Or own any teams, for that matter.
1/19/2010 1:46 PM
snake_p
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Quote: Originally Posted By snake_p on 1/19/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 1/19/2010
There is no reason a team can't compete for a pennant, assuming you've got NOTHING to work with, by season 4. I say this because that's when YOUR draft picks and IFA signings should be MLB-ready.
His first season of draft picks and IFA's could be ready in that time, with maybe a couple of second season picks as well. That's about four to seven major league ready, major league caliber players, of whom a couple might become stars. You can't even compete for a pennant in a disorganized league with that.

I notice nobody challenged you on your assertion, ridiculous as it was. More proof nobody reads what you write any more.

I responded to what little miket wrote, after I read it. Apparently I was the only one who read it ... may still be the only one who read it. I hope no one else reads it -- why spoil their day with something so ludicrous, unless they need a good laugh.
1/19/2010 1:51 PM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By mlhutch on 1/19/2010

Yes, you succeeded in blocking other rebuilders (e.g. me) from nabbing the best talent on the WW . . .

In the same league (Hamilton), I also took over a struggling franchise largely devoid of prospects and filled with capable but vastly overpaid ML players. I moved some of them to net some middling prospects, created future cap space, and filled out the rest of my team with R5 and bargain FAs.

I expect my team to win 70+ games. So, in short, it isn't that hard to take a terrible franchise and at least stay competitive from the get go. You need to be proactive though


Sorry. I was with a team full of 13/80/37/23/75 sluggers who couldn't field. If there was a player with a glove on the WW, I was claiming him.
1/19/2010 1:54 PM
jimmystick
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Back to the questions posed by timf...

I think it takes longer than 4 years go from horrible to title contender.... that is if you are ONLY using the draft, IFAs, waivers, and Rule 5. You're going to have to add a couple studs in there from trade or FA. In Year 4, the rookies you acquired in Year 1 may be ML ready, but the guys from Years 2 and 3 are still in AA at best.

Other than that, I agree with most of what's been said: Avoid signing FAs (your own included) age 32+, Avoid acquiring players aged 28+ if their makeup is less than 60 (they'll have regressed horribly in 4 years), Spend as much free time as you have evaluating the draft prospects and make it your mission to "hit" on all players drafted in the first 3 rounds, and Sign at least one solid IFA per season for the first 1-4 years if possible.

If you do that, I think 6 years is realistic. If you mix in 5 or so Big Time FAs I think 3-4 years can be done.
1/19/2010 1:54 PM
MikeT23
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If it takes you 6 seasons to compete(a year and a half of your life), I'd suggest a different hobby.
1/19/2010 1:56 PM
jimmystick
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To go from HORRIBLE to TITLE CONTENDER using only the draft and IFAs????

As mentioned, the draft class from your first season will be ML ready in Year 4, but the rest of them are still in the minors.

When the guy says "Keep in mind this team has virtually nobody in the entire system and the players it does have may never reach projections due to poor management by previous owners" I take that to mean a MAXIMUM of 2-3 players in his system are good enough to play for a championship caliber team.

I would estimate a championship caliber team probably needs about 15-17 studs.

If you can get 12-14 or so studs in Year 1 using only the draft, IFAs, waivers, and Rule 5 then you gots mad skillz. Congratulations.
1/19/2010 2:02 PM
MikeT23
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Why would you do that?

And, no, championship caliber teams do not require 15-17 studs. That's why HBD has so many tankers and why so many owners are in perpetual rebuild.
1/19/2010 2:06 PM
jimmystick
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Why would I do "what?"
1/19/2010 2:08 PM
camden68
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in BPF, foolsgold has turned an empty franchise around in exactly ONE season. Took over a team that lost 100+ under the previous owner, in S6 had nothing in the minors and crap in the bigs, and like that guy who turned trading a paper clip into a house, he started peddling what he had, and would flip that into an upgrade, so on and so on. Won 78 games in S7, and is on pace for about 95 wins in season 8, and has some very fine prospects now.

Best rebuild I've ever seen.
1/19/2010 2:10 PM
MikeT23
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Rebuild a team using only two team-building tools?

Seriously, I know some people want to be led by the hand thru building a team. But there are many ways to acquire players. Seems entirely unnecessary to have to say "Check the waiver wire, make some trades, participate in the Rule 5 in addition to drafting well and signing IFAs." Seems absolutely silly to say that.
1/19/2010 2:12 PM
jway11
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I've seen teams win championships that some people may say have no business doing so. They weren't jacked on offense and didn't pitch shutouts every game. They had a couple of studs on offense and a few with pitching, but overall they had the right mix of players, and maybe a little luck on their side. You don't need a team of All-Stars to win a world series.
1/19/2010 2:15 PM
jimmystick
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Anyway, the point of my post was that if you want to go from really really bad to really really good in only 4 short seasons, this is what I personally suggest:

1) Year 1, your first round pick has to be stud, MVP/Cy Young caliber type player. Second round pick has got to be starting caliber. Sign 2 IFAs that are All-Star caliber.

2) Sign at least 2 very good, high quality, hopefully even All-Star caliber free agents in each offseason.

3) In Year 4, you will be able to make a very good run. You've got your ML ready first and second round picks and 2 IFAs (4 players total) from Year 1, and You've got 4 seasons of signing 2 good FAs (4x2=8 good FAs). That's 12 very good, All-Star caliber players plus maybe hopefully 2-3 that were by the previous owner which 14-15 for a very good solid core.

If you don't sign those ML FAs though, it's going to take longer than 4 years, period.
1/19/2010 2:15 PM
iain
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Quote: Originally Posted By jimmystick on 1/19/2010To go from HORRIBLE to TITLE CONTENDER using only the draft and IFAs????

As mentioned, the draft class from your first season will be ML ready in Year 4, but the rest of them are still in the minors.

When the guy says "Keep in mind this team has virtually nobody in the entire system and the players it does have may never reach projections due to poor management by previous owners" I take that to mean a MAXIMUM of 2-3 players in his system are good enough to play for a championship caliber team.

I would estimate a championship caliber team probably needs about 15-17 studs.

If you can get 12-14 or so studs in Year 1 using only the draft, IFAs, waivers, and Rule 5 then you gots mad skillz. Congratulations
WTF????

I've won a WS, and been to 5 others.... and I've never had a team that good.

You can only play 9 or 10 at any given time....
1/19/2010 2:20 PM
MikeT23
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I think I found my answer.

SpahnTB Angry Dragons8$81.3M74-88 (.457)2-
SpahnTB Angry Dragons9$31.6M45-117 (.278)4-
SpahnTB Angry Dragons10$20.2M66-96 (.407)3-
SpahnTB Angry Dragons11$21.6M72-90 (.444)3-
SpahnTB Angry Dragons12$25.6M84-78 (.519)2-
SpahnTB Angry Dragons13$32.7M84-78 (.519)1-
SpahnTB Angry Dragons14$44.1M99-63 (.611)1-
SpahnTB Angry Dragons15-7-2 (.778)--
1/19/2010 2:21 PM
iain
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Maybe I'm misreading, and we don't mean the same type of player when we each say "stud" ... but seriously. 15-17????
1/19/2010 2:23 PM
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