You can't really call Sutter a true 'closer' either. He routinely went 2+ innings to get saves and on occasion would go as long as 4 innings. The term closer we place on guys nowadays can not be tagged to this type of pitcher since closers in this era are truly specialists. Generally they only go 1 inning per appearance and never more than 2 and the 2 inning appearances happen only in rare situations. I would say there are currently no true closers in the hall and the only one used in todays definition of closer was Eckersley. He maybe the most dominant closer of all time (Rivera and Hoffman are in the conversation) but he spent a big portion of his career as a starter so we can't say he is there based on his closer role alone.

http://www.whatifsports.com/HBD/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx?pid=757523

5 allstar games - 3 as a starter 2 as a closer

1 Fireman award

29 in 1st season

record 126-60

95 save out of 109 opportunities

yes or no

Short but dominant career. Tough to say not to this guy. I would vote yes.

In any of my Worlds, he'd have my vote as well.

Real closer: A Gossage or Sutter type who entered in the 6th or 7th, shut the door, and finished the game. A numbers closer: The one inning wonders we have now who need 3 pitchers to get from the starter to him, and he never see an inherited runner on base. Put the real closer in, keep the numbers closer out.

Quote: Originally posted by grivfmd1 on 1/25/2010http://www.whatifsports.com/HBD/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx?pid=7575235 allstar games - 3 as a starter 2 as a closer1 Fireman award29 in 1st season record 126-6095 save out of 109 opportunitiesyes or no 

You didn't point out his best numbers - the 2.29 ERA and 1.01 WHIP, and he didn't post an ERA over 3 until his last season

In season 7 he put up a 1.45 ERA in 211 innings, that's insane!

How did he not win the Cy Young that year?

Hall of Fame? Absolutely

The crazy thing is I don't think he's even eligible for nomination, only 8 seasons as a starter, doesn't hit any of the statistical milestones and doesn't hit any of the awards benchmarks (AS appearances, Cy Youngs)

Quote: Originally posted by eeyore1959 on 1/25/2010Real closer:   A Gossage or Sutter type who entered in the 6th or 7th, shut the door, and finished the game.   A numbers closer:  The one inning wonders we have now who need 3 pitchers to get from the starter to him, and he never see an inherited runner on base. Put the real closer in, keep the numbers closer out.

Eeyore, I think you may be romanticizing the "real closers" of the past a bit. It's true Sutter had 188 saves of over 1.0 IP, but more often than not he'd pick up a save with 2.0 IP or fewer (so the 8th and 9th). He did occasionally come in during the 7th and a quick look through his game log does show at least one game where he came in during the 6th inning (with 2 out).

I'm sure there are others, but he entered the door in the 8th or 9th, shut the door, and finished the game more much more often than he did so in the 6th or 7th. (If you don't want to look at game logs, just take note of the fact that he never (not a single season) averaged even 2.0 IP/game during his career.

It's "The Hall of Fame" not the "Hall of Very Good"

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What decides if a player is a middle reliever, short reliever, or starter? Is it the sim? I have a player the sim would consider a starter who is my closer, is the sim going to consider him a starter?

What about a player who has multiple roles during his career? What if a pitcher starts the first half of his career and then closes the second half of his career? Or a player whose role is middle reliever for the first 5 to 6 seasons, then becomes a free agent then spends the next 6 to 7 seasons as a closer.

Quote: Originally Posted By gjello10 on 1/25/2010Kind of shocking the Lee Smith isn't i

Not really if you actually look at something other than saves.

Like his skin color? RACIST!!!!!

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