Glitch that needs to be fixed (long) Topic

jerkstore33
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What are his REB ratings? I used to notice when playing Bing's teams he had great rebounders. He would take advantage of opponents playing +2,3,4,5 and his big men would get tons of O-REB's and shoot for very high %'s.
4/16/2010 10:29 AM
Iguana1
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Quote: Originally Posted By dalter on 4/16/2010

I honestly don't feel like the fatigue thing should be that big a deal. In real life, it would be additional defensive focus (DT's or semi-DT's) that would really curb it, not exhaustion.

It's a bit of a slippery slope when dealing with the increasing of the effectiveness of DTs. A few years ago I thought the DTs were too effective. Remember the days of the -5 and the double teaming of both guards being dominant? Even the DT in a press is viewed by many to still be too effective.

I agree that at some point if a player is going to jack up 80-100% of the shots, a DT should limit that gameplan. However if a player is set to 20% of the offense, a double team shouldn't be as overly effective if the offensive player is willing to pass to an open teammate.

A question is, what is that point/setting that defines the offensive player is more likely to shoot against a DT (which should make the DT effective), and when he's more likely to pass to a unguarded teammate. And subsequently, how should those results be curtailed.

And the offensive player's effort required to get off a vast majority of the shots (whether it is against a DT or against a basic defense with high IQs), is where the increased fatigue could play a role. He needs to rest somewhere, be it on the bench or the defensive end.
4/16/2010 10:32 AM
Rails
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Absolutely Iggy. This is inconclusive at best. How many sims did the team play against. What were the stats results of games against humans who dt or played +.



4/16/2010 10:56 AM
kmasonbx
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Quote: Originally Posted By Rails on 4/16/2010
Absolutely Iggy. This is inconclusive at best. How many sims did the team play against. What were the stats results of games against humans who dt or played +.





Honestly I kind've think this is irrelevant. There is just no argument for why a player with a 43 per rating taking 17.5 3s per game for his career should be able to shoot 41% for his career. Somebody with that per probably shouldn't even make that high of percentage if every shot he takes is a wide open shot.
4/16/2010 11:03 AM
dalter
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kmason, the bigger issue to me there is simply his ability to be a successful 3pt shooter at all -- whether he's taking a normal amount or a large amount.
4/16/2010 11:05 AM
colonels19
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4/16/2010 11:06 AM
dalter
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You're right, iguana. Have to be careful. The minus defense with the DT was ridiculous back in the day. I would only want to see an increased effectiveness programmed in for over-the-top distros, not just a good player who's a leading scorer with like 15 ppg.
4/16/2010 11:10 AM
colonels19
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Quote: Originally Posted By reinsel on 4/16/2010
Possibly. Also Jordan scored 30-35ppg and it didn't hurt his FG%. I guess it depends on the competition, but almost every NBA team goes to 1 guy for most of the 4th quarter.

In college it is not as common, but Texas with Durant did it.

A couple things here. Jordan's highest FGA per minute was 0.6946 (2279 FGA out of 3281 mins) in 1986-87. He averaged 37.1 ppg that year and shot 48.6% from the field. The HD player in question here took something like 770 FGA in 670 minutes...a 1.1493 FGA/MIN. Hell even Wilt Chamberlain didn't shoot at that rate in his 50 ppg season, 3159 out of 3882...0.8137 FGA/MIN.

The fact of the matter is this. If this happened in real life where only 2 guys were taking the shots on that team, that guy would be double if not triple teamed always, especially if you KNEW the guy was going to shoot every single time.

Perhaps the best solution to the "bing" problem is to have a max distro you can set for a player...30? 35? 25? I honestly never remember going over 20 or 22 for one player, but a lot of you have played this game a ton more than I have. Its a simple fix really...either do that or add some kind of SHOT DURABILITY rating where a guy would begin to fatigue after X amount of shots or what have you.
4/16/2010 11:16 AM
kmasonbx
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Quote: Originally Posted By dalter on 4/16/2010kmason, the bigger issue to me there is simply his ability to be a successful 3pt shooter at all -- whether he's taking a normal amount or a large amount.
I touched on this in my OP, players definitely shoot too well overall. There are too many teams who shoot near 40% from 3 in this game. I think the tweaks to shooting that need to be made is 3 point shooting needs to be slightly less effective and LP scoring needs to be more effective. It's incredibly hard to have a big man shoot 50% against a qaulity schedule taking 10+ shots per game regardless of his LP and ath.
4/16/2010 11:25 AM
kmasonbx
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Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 4/16/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By reinsel on 4/16/2010

Possibly. Also Jordan scored 30-35ppg and it didn't hurt his FG%. I guess it depends on the competition, but almost every NBA team goes to 1 guy for most of the 4th quarter.

In college it is not as common, but Texas with Durant did it.

A couple things here. Jordan's highest FGA per minute was 0.6946 (2279 FGA out of 3281 mins) in 1986-87. He averaged 37.1 ppg that year and shot 48.6% from the field. The HD player in question here took something like 770 FGA in 670 minutes...a 1.1493 FGA/MIN. Hell even Wilt Chamberlain didn't shoot at that rate in his 50 ppg season, 3159 out of 3882...0.8137 FGA/MIN


The fact of the matter is this. If this happened in real life where only 2 guys were taking the shots on that team, that guy would be double if not triple teamed always, especially if you KNEW the guy was going to shoot every single time.

Perhaps the best solution to the "bing" problem is to have a max distro you can set for a player...30? 35? 25? I honestly never remember going over 20 or 22 for one player, but a lot of you have played this game a ton more than I have. Its a simple fix really...either do that or add some kind of SHOT DURABILITY rating where a guy would begin to fatigue after X amount of shots or what have you.
This actually doesn't matter. Because you can set a player to 1 and everybody else to 0 and the guy set at 1 will take every shot.
4/16/2010 11:27 AM
colonels19
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Quote: Originally Posted By kmasonbx on 4/16/2010
This actually doesn't matter. Because you can set a player to 1 and everybody else to 0 and the guy set at 1 will take every shot.
Then make it mandatory to fill the distro to 100
4/16/2010 11:31 AM
Iguana1
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In 2010 Luke Harangody took a D1 leading 37.1% of Notre Dame's shots when he was on the floor (not ND's total shots, but rather just the % of total shots taken while he was on the court).

Over the past 7 seasons only a couple of players have hit the 40% mark. But on average about 100 players a season are above the 30% mark.

So if we had to pick a % point for saying "this much is too much", I suggested somewhere over that 30% portion of a teams offense should start to see a decline in a player's effectiveness. And over 40% should be a steeper decline.
4/16/2010 11:32 AM
ardthomp
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Quote: Originally Posted By jerkstore33 on 4/16/2010What are his REB ratings? I used to notice when playing Bing's teams he had great rebounders. He would take advantage of opponents playing +2,3,4,5 and his big men would get tons of O-REB's and shoot for very high %'s.
One of those games where I just bang my head on the desk while reading the play-by-play!
4/16/2010 11:36 AM
kmasonbx
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Quote: Originally Posted By Iguana1 on 4/16/2010
In 2010 Luke Harangody took a D1 leading 37.1% of Notre Dame's shots when he was on the floor (not ND's total shots, but rather just the % of total shots taken while he was on the court).

Over the past 7 seasons only a couple of players have hit the 40% mark. But on average about 100 players a season are above the 30% mark.

So if we had to pick a % point for saying "this much is too much", I suggested somewhere over that 30% portion of a teams offense should start to see a decline in a player's effectiveness. And over 40% should be a steeper decline.

I think 30% is too high because for the most part players play less in HD. Gody played about 30 minutes+ per game while a lot of times the guys in HD who take a huge % of their shots only play 20-23 mpg and take upwards of 85% of their team's shot when they are in the game. But for the game that % will be less than 50%. So when you have a guy that takes 35% of his team's shots when he's in the game he'll probably only take 20% of his team's total shots.
4/16/2010 11:38 AM
ardthomp
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What about Stephen Curry with Davidson? I wonder what percentage of shots he took when he was on the floor. I bet it was about 25% and his shooting percentage was 46.7% overall and 41.2% from three for his career.
4/16/2010 11:49 AM
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