Don't forget -- under the old engine, FAMU wins this game 45% of the time :)

Posted by kelby_03 on 7/18/2010 12:37:00 PM (view original):
So the situation is like this: Tanner overlooked a game and had a terrible gameplan going in. He then lost on the road to the team because of sloppy play. Sounds a lot like something that happens in real sports...

This.

To me, this sounds like a classic example of a coach that used the previous version of the press to have success and win alot of games.  Now that the press has been toned down just a bite, his same tactics are not as effective and instead of finding new ones, he would rather quit.  This will only help show who the really good coaches are instead of just coaches who could run the press and get wins. 

uptempo / press with 7 players, 2 scrubs, 3 walk-ons and nobody with an IQ over B+........this result is SHOCKING.....ly accurate

p.s. I'll be honest, I didn't read the play-by-play, didn't need to after I got this far.

Part of the issue is the way the press works.  I was just recently told that the front court players don't really matter in the press and that the SF matters only slightly.  The 2 players that really matter are the PG and SG.  So while many of the press coaches will look at the overall team to see if they should win, they should really only look at the guards.

Don't know abotu that.  Haven't under THIS engine, but at Curry I did Press for a long while and it definitely mattered what your positions other than guard were.

Posted by cburton23 on 7/19/2010 10:17:00 AM (view original):
Part of the issue is the way the press works.  I was just recently told that the front court players don't really matter in the press and that the SF matters only slightly.  The 2 players that really matter are the PG and SG.  So while many of the press coaches will look at the overall team to see if they should win, they should really only look at the guards.

Who told you this? WIS?

Posted by z0601 on 7/19/2010 1:09:00 AM (view original):
To me, this sounds like a classic example of a coach that used the previous version of the press to have success and win alot of games.  Now that the press has been toned down just a bite, his same tactics are not as effective and instead of finding new ones, he would rather quit.  This will only help show who the really good coaches are instead of just coaches who could run the press and get wins. 

Couldn't have said it better myself Z.

I've been cranky about the whole rollout, but c'mon.

I could find a bajillion examples of mediocre teams staying with much, much better teams for a quarter of the game (or more).

It happens every year, in every conference.

The only difference is that those teams have more depth and/or don't press the entire game at the highet tempo they can.

Posted by cburton23 on 7/19/2010 10:17:00 AM (view original):
Part of the issue is the way the press works.  I was just recently told that the front court players don't really matter in the press and that the SF matters only slightly.  The 2 players that really matter are the PG and SG.  So while many of the press coaches will look at the overall team to see if they should win, they should really only look at the guards.

Uh, I don't know to laugh because you're joking or feel sorry for you for believing this. SF has been one of the most important positions for me if not the most important. Next is bigs. Guards come a dime-a-dozen, and it wasn't until last season that any of them were really even a decent part of my success. Still, last season my #1 and #2 options I built around were my PF and then my back up SF.

Posted by furry_nipps on 7/19/2010 5:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cburton23 on 7/19/2010 10:17:00 AM (view original):
Part of the issue is the way the press works.  I was just recently told that the front court players don't really matter in the press and that the SF matters only slightly.  The 2 players that really matter are the PG and SG.  So while many of the press coaches will look at the overall team to see if they should win, they should really only look at the guards.

Uh, I don't know to laugh because you're joking or feel sorry for you for believing this. SF has been one of the most important positions for me if not the most important. Next is bigs. Guards come a dime-a-dozen, and it wasn't until last season that any of them were really even a decent part of my success. Still, last season my #1 and #2 options I built around were my PF and then my back up SF.

Don't laugh furry. This came right from WIS. Just had a 4 day long discussion and they told me SF matters very little in the press and PF and C almost not at all b

Posted by cburton23 on 7/19/2010 9:01:00 PM (view original):

Posted by furry_nipps on 7/19/2010 5:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cburton23 on 7/19/2010 10:17:00 AM (view original):
Part of the issue is the way the press works.  I was just recently told that the front court players don't really matter in the press and that the SF matters only slightly.  The 2 players that really matter are the PG and SG.  So while many of the press coaches will look at the overall team to see if they should win, they should really only look at the guards.

Uh, I don't know to laugh because you're joking or feel sorry for you for believing this. SF has been one of the most important positions for me if not the most important. Next is bigs. Guards come a dime-a-dozen, and it wasn't until last season that any of them were really even a decent part of my success. Still, last season my #1 and #2 options I built around were my PF and then my back up SF.

Don't laugh furry. This came right from WIS. Just had a 4 day long discussion and they told me SF matters very little in the press and PF and C almost not at all b

Hehe.. Gotta love WIS. I mean, at least they try. I wish CS posted a thread, stickied it and put it on the forums. It'd be great laughs with most of the replies.

Posted by cburton23 on 7/19/2010 9:01:00 PM (view original):

Posted by furry_nipps on 7/19/2010 5:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cburton23 on 7/19/2010 10:17:00 AM (view original):
Part of the issue is the way the press works.  I was just recently told that the front court players don't really matter in the press and that the SF matters only slightly.  The 2 players that really matter are the PG and SG.  So while many of the press coaches will look at the overall team to see if they should win, they should really only look at the guards.

Uh, I don't know to laugh because you're joking or feel sorry for you for believing this. SF has been one of the most important positions for me if not the most important. Next is bigs. Guards come a dime-a-dozen, and it wasn't until last season that any of them were really even a decent part of my success. Still, last season my #1 and #2 options I built around were my PF and then my back up SF.

Don't laugh furry. This came right from WIS. Just had a 4 day long discussion and they told me SF matters very little in the press and PF and C almost not at all b

If you don't mind, would you post that response from CS?  I'm sure that there are ALOT of coaches who would be interested in reading that.

Posted by furry_nipps on 7/19/2010 5:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cburton23 on 7/19/2010 10:17:00 AM (view original):
Part of the issue is the way the press works.  I was just recently told that the front court players don't really matter in the press and that the SF matters only slightly.  The 2 players that really matter are the PG and SG.  So while many of the press coaches will look at the overall team to see if they should win, they should really only look at the guards.

Uh, I don't know to laugh because you're joking or feel sorry for you for believing this. SF has been one of the most important positions for me if not the most important. Next is bigs. Guards come a dime-a-dozen, and it wasn't until last season that any of them were really even a decent part of my success. Still, last season my #1 and #2 options I built around were my PF and then my back up SF.

Sounds like you're talking about offense and he's talking about defense. I've never thought bigs should matter much in the press because a real life pressing team will have their big men back to protect the rim not running around the court. Just because a PF or C doesn't matter much on defense doesn't mean your PF and C won't be great offensive players, the two aren't related at all.

So I am clear I was talking about breaking a press, but logic would follow it works both ways on offense and defense.  Here is one line from CS-

"My point is that, in the backcourt (where more of the turnovers will happen from a press), it's mostly the guards handling, with some help from the SF, and a little outlet help from the PF and C. I'm not saying that those other guys don't handle the ball in a press, just that they handle it less, especially in the backcourt."

Now I don't think this means that front court players are meaningless, but it did change the way I look at a gameplan.  I used to look and say, "Oh man that PF has a BH of 9, I am going to eat him alive."  And that appears to not be the way the press works.