A Petition (& rant) to Seble: Fix Recruiting NOW!! Topic

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timmytfk
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Against.  I think if you can't figure out how to recruit under the new system; you probably weren't that great of recruiter to begin with.  All the players are still there.  Adjustments may need to be made on the engine's part, but they also need to be made on the coach's part.  Another factor that needs to be thought of, is that in real college basketball coaches do not get to control the amount of talent coming out in a particular year.  You can't complain about it, you just have to go recruit the best posiible players for your team.  We need to do the same thing here.  The talent is all still there to get.
8/14/2010 1:59 PM
cbriese
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Posted by blazor on 8/14/2010 1:35:00 PM (view original):
Posted by cbriese on 8/14/2010 1:28:00 PM (view original):
Against, of course. The new recruit diversity at D1 is, in my opinion the best thing that has happened to HD in a long time. I love it. It is why I am actually adding teams, after having dropped all of them.
Cbriese, if you prefer the change, of course that's fine.  But remember, you may not think very much of it if too many of your fellow owners keep folding up shop and quitting.  Have you stopped to look at some of the other conferences in D1 other than your own?  Far too many of them are almost completely empty.  A trend that very well may not stop if a change is not made.  Just saying.
Please provide the statistical evidence to support the theory that the recent change in recruit generation has already contributed to reduced numbers in various conferences across divisions in all WIS worlds. Please extrapolate the data to show the results in three month periods if a change is not made. Please differentiate the effects from this change as compared to the effects from other changes in the game. Please account for seasonal fluctuation, adjustments in marketing strategies, and historical retention rates. And, as any high school math teacher will remind you, please show your work.

When you have done that, then we can have an intelligent discussion. Until then, everything anyone (including me) says will happen is merely speculation. If you are good at that, please tell me what the DJIA will finish at next Friday, August 20. That's only a week away; you should have most of the data already.

Yeah, that's what I thought.
8/14/2010 2:01 PM
dilo
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After 43 seasons and 750 wins in Rupp, it's looking likely that I will retire because either recruiting sucks, or I suck; the result of either being that the game isn't fun for me any longer.  Setting aside the quantity and attributes of the recruits themselves, my frustration was symbolized by this latest recruiting class, where I was only able to fill 1 of 4 scholarships, and lost out on two players to teams with lower prestige, despite offering starting spots and 25 minutes PT to both recruits.  Either there are not enough decent recruits to let a mid-major like UMass (B prestige) earn its share of quality recruits, or the logic is flawed where a less-than-mid major (Manhattan, C+) can beat a UMass for a recruit, when UMass is offering a starting spot.  That should be the exception, but it is unfortunately becoming the rule.  Maybe I will change my mind, but the fact remains changes to recruiting have had an unusually adverse effect on me (again: perhaps my fault).
8/14/2010 2:08 PM
coachcjinatl
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I agree with dilo and girt, something needs to change. I am also thinking of getting out of the game.
8/14/2010 2:11 PM
dcy0827
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I'd like to see a subtle change, but nothing major.  What bothers me most about the new recruits is how weird some of the ratings are.  I think there should be some kind of minimum rating for each position in D1.  I mean, honestly, I've seen big men with Reb ratings in the teens and LP ratings just as low.  Those type players, in real life, would not be D1 players.  If there was some kind of minimum rating that the recruit generator was set at and a player came out at the minimum, even with low potential, I would be fine with that.  As it is now, in my opinion, there are just too many recruits with ratings in categories that shouldn't make them D1 players.  Maybe fix the really bizarre recruits and their ratings and I would be good with the system as is.
8/14/2010 2:19 PM
girt25
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Posted by kmasonbx on 8/14/2010 1:38:00 PM (view original):
OMG, people just need to adjust. People are too caught up in comparing new recruits to the old recruits, you guys need to realize old recruits do not matter anymore. A good recruit in the old engine is not the same as a good recruit now. Lower your standards, 80 passing point guards in D1 are now not terrible, and you aren't at a disadvantage by having them because everybody else will have them also. Change your standards, I know people hate change but it's for the better. I remember when everybody complained that every top team had guys with 99 in every important category and now that that will no longer be the case people want to complain that the recruits aren't good enough. I guess instead of 99s people wanted the recruits to be 95s across the board. The fact is guys with 95+ ratings should be elite players not dime a dozen players and now we have that. People wanted the chance to have elite guys well now you do, if you're lucky enough to get a guy who ends up being 95+ in a few categories he will stand out rather then just be 1 of the guys on your team with great ratings.
blazor, this post is why the title of the thread and your initial post badly need to be cleaned up and corrected.

kmason, his point is not that recruits have lower starting values across the board. I have seen very few people upset about that fact, and many people, myself included, who think it's good (for the reason you mentioned).

The problem isn't the lower starting ratings. The problem is the fact that there is now an incredibly large gulf between the really good recruits and everyone else. The drop is extremely precipitous. And when you couple that with the fact that there are now more than 2x as many low potential categories as before, which prevents the inferior recruits from catching up, it is leading to a major problem in DI.

(This is very clearly manifesting itself already in Allen. Over the last three seasons, an average of 11.5 non-BCS teams were in the top 25 in rpi. This season there are just six. Bad, bad news.)
8/14/2010 2:48 PM (edited)
a_in_the_b
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There may be more lows, but I have noticed MANY more "High highs" too. .so. . .

8/14/2010 3:02 PM
dbalog
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I have been at a successful mid-major for awhile now, and don't see how I can possibly stay here given this change. Honestly, it seems crazy to me that anyone playing DI right now wouldn't be able to see how bad this is for the non-BCS schools.
8/14/2010 3:09 PM
aejones
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Posted by dbalog on 8/14/2010 3:09:00 PM (view original):
I have been at a successful mid-major for awhile now, and don't see how I can possibly stay here given this change. Honestly, it seems crazy to me that anyone playing DI right now wouldn't be able to see how bad this is for the non-BCS schools.
Sound a lot like what you'd be going through if you had to recruit at a mid-major in real life. Local talent or second tier talent are your options.
8/14/2010 3:12 PM
dbalog
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Posted by aejones on 8/14/2010 3:12:00 PM (view original):
Posted by dbalog on 8/14/2010 3:09:00 PM (view original):
I have been at a successful mid-major for awhile now, and don't see how I can possibly stay here given this change. Honestly, it seems crazy to me that anyone playing DI right now wouldn't be able to see how bad this is for the non-BCS schools.
Sound a lot like what you'd be going through if you had to recruit at a mid-major in real life. Local talent or second tier talent are your options.
Right. So because BCS teams completely dominate in real life, they should completely dominate here, too? Is that what you're saying? (Not to mention that a team like mine that's consistently made the Big Dance should not have to settle for leftover talent, but that's another issue.)

Because that would be all well and good, assuming that you wanted to only give a small handful of coaches a real chance every season, alienate many more coaches and watch a bunch of them leave. If that's the goal here, Mission Accomplished.
8/14/2010 3:17 PM
dbalog
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aejones, you have all non-DI teams. Spend your time and money building up a non-BCS team in DI and then see how you like taking a dick in the *** with this change.
8/14/2010 3:17 PM
vandydave
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obviously im for. i really dont get how anyone who cares about the good of the game as a whole could be against fixing this. for all those who are arguing that we all just need to wait and adapt, are you going to be happy with even more empty mid and low level d1 conferences because the change was made so drastically that coaches leave the game in droves? im not arguing for all 90+ players as it was before the change, but i am arguing for a mid point between where we were before and where we are now. to fail to do so will be the single most negative impact on d1 in the history of HD.
8/14/2010 3:25 PM
dcy0827
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Honestly, I don't mind all of the low potentials.  I think you just have to take the bad with the good now and we're all dealing with the same players anyway. 

Again, what I don't particularly like is players with starting ratings so low in their "core" categories that even with high potential they won't be able to improve to a reasonable level.

I would also agree that there is probably too wide of a gap between the "elite" recruits and the rest of the recruiting pool.  Now if the majority of these elites end up leaving early after a season or two, then I think the problem will work itself out.  The "bad" players will have four seasons to try to improve (and don't forget the IQ improvement), while the top dog schools will end up having to reload every couple of seasons.  If Seble can find that perfect balance between how much IQ's matter compared to how much ratings matter, I think we'll be fine.  The thing that worries me though is that IQ may end up not having enough effect on the results and that the monster ratings will trump the IQ's too easily.  If we're trying to emulate real life, there has to be a place in the game for a solid, high IQ team (think Cornell this past season) to be able to compete with the elite teams, otherwise my guess is that each world becomes BCS conferences and ghosttown conferences.  Just my two cents......
8/14/2010 3:26 PM
vandydave
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Posted by cbriese on 8/14/2010 2:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by blazor on 8/14/2010 1:35:00 PM (view original):
Posted by cbriese on 8/14/2010 1:28:00 PM (view original):
Against, of course. The new recruit diversity at D1 is, in my opinion the best thing that has happened to HD in a long time. I love it. It is why I am actually adding teams, after having dropped all of them.
Cbriese, if you prefer the change, of course that's fine.  But remember, you may not think very much of it if too many of your fellow owners keep folding up shop and quitting.  Have you stopped to look at some of the other conferences in D1 other than your own?  Far too many of them are almost completely empty.  A trend that very well may not stop if a change is not made.  Just saying.
Please provide the statistical evidence to support the theory that the recent change in recruit generation has already contributed to reduced numbers in various conferences across divisions in all WIS worlds. Please extrapolate the data to show the results in three month periods if a change is not made. Please differentiate the effects from this change as compared to the effects from other changes in the game. Please account for seasonal fluctuation, adjustments in marketing strategies, and historical retention rates. And, as any high school math teacher will remind you, please show your work.

When you have done that, then we can have an intelligent discussion. Until then, everything anyone (including me) says will happen is merely speculation. If you are good at that, please tell me what the DJIA will finish at next Friday, August 20. That's only a week away; you should have most of the data already.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

i agree, lets never do anything proactively, lets always wait until after, because despite what many say and how things look, im sure everything will be fine. lets not even think about it or talk about it, just wait and see. everyone should probably quit posting in the forums or even thinking about HD, just let things run their course. hasnt that always worked well for HD in the past?

8/14/2010 3:31 PM
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A Petition (& rant) to Seble: Fix Recruiting NOW!! Topic
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