Posted by davis on 12/20/2010 5:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tianyi7886 on 12/20/2010 4:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie on 12/20/2010 4:15:00 PM (view original):
very interesting kujay. i haven't had time to go through all the players, but i thought one of the most interesting pieces was the number of 90+ per shooters. i suppose that is somewhat realistic - in a 3 point shooting contest, i wouldn't really expect d1 players to blow the best of d3 out of the water. now, when they are actually being guarded, that is a whole different story... :)

and i do agree - nice to see simmy actually signing some solid guys. i honestly think d3 simmy is probably the most likely to do so, but still, nice to see nonetheless.

Very true. I have a friend who was very talented but couldn't make it onto a D1 squad (partially due to injuring his shooting elbow, and switching from a righty to a lefty while in high school). He once made 100 free throws in a row in practice and can drain 3s nonstop when no one is on him. When you put a bigger athlete who might even be faster on him, his accuracy goes off. 

I guess we've all known guys like this... one of the best shooters I've ever seen (when open) was a guy who was on an intramural team with me for a few games.  Left alone, he could pop in three-pointers one after another.  Dude just never missed.  I never saw him lose a game of horse.

Unfortunately, he was about 5'8", hugely overweight, and he couldn't run, dribble, or defend.  To top it off, he had a low release point (it was kind of a push shot off of the chest instead of a jumper), so that anyone who was ambulatory and taller than, say, about 5'5" could block the shot every time he took it.  So we couldn't even use him, and he quit after two or three games of never playing.  Probably the closest I have ever seen to PE = 100 among casual players, but useless even in intramurals because SPD, DE, REB, BH, etc... were all 1.

My friend is a little different though, considering he did get 2 tryouts to make the team at Nova, and then had a shot at Rutgers. If he didn't hurt his elbow in Soph year and had to start shooting left handed, he might have been playing D1.

Posted by kmasonbx on 12/20/2010 4:50:00 PM (view original):
Pretty sure it just means the guys the sim AIs get are low rated high potential guys that humans avoid because of low starting ratings only to see them improve a bunch under the sim controlled team.

Bingo.

Kmason is probably bright.  I bet a lot of those SIMAI guys were guys that were "hi hi" in a lot area's but had such bad starting ratings that they undervalued.  SV's being somewhat cost prohibitve at DIII, it is not surprising that this developed, although I am surprised by how many of these types of players are out there.

I'm not sure a guy with 12 ath and 12 def (Dodgen) ought to be considered "elite" no matter what numbers he's putting up against other sims.  80+ spd or not my team would foul this kid out in less than 10 minutes... Just for example.  I'm not disputing that there are a lot of these type players, just that maybe we are playing a little loose with how good some of the players really are...

He's on the same team with Piatt (who is an excellant DIII player),
Human coached with 30% distro and 30 mins....... they'd light up Sulivan and Massey like the 4th of July 

Interesting you bring a guy like that up dacj501.  I do think there are some borderline selections who only excel in one category, but I'm not sure I would have thought to include Dodgen in the mix.  As miz2 notes, he's got a running make who is really good.  And there is actually another player from that team who is on page one of the thread.

Dodgen has one of the 25 best speed ratings in the D3 world and also one of the 25 best perimeter ratings.  The athleticism is ugly but with a solid ball handling rating of 62 I had no problem giving him the green light to fire away on my team.

Piatt has one of the 25 best passing ratings and one of the top 25 overall ratings.  And as miz2 notes, he is an outstanding D3 player.  66 athleticism and 83 speed is fantastic.  70 defense is top notch.  And guard skills of 77 perimeter, 61 ball handling, and 84 passing is tough to match.  I run a solid D3 program and he blows my guys out of the water.

And the one not mentioned is John Weitzman.  He's "only" top 25 in passing.  But he also has a 75 speed rating, 79 perimeter, and 50 ball handling as well.

I actually think this three guard rotation can match almost anybody.  I just took a quick scan and I actually think Piatt is probably the best guard in the D3 world.

Sad thing is that since its a Sim AI team www.whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=7518, it is horribly constructed.  Three walkons and only three post players.  The two small forwards are liabilities, but aren't terrible.  But only three post players and two of them are freshman and they have big problems with stamina and IQ.

If the team was human coached, we'd probably lose.  Against simai, maybe we still lose, but I'd put money on being able to foul Dodgen out in short order. Against a human I think we'd foul him out, but probably not before he hit for 15, and his running mates would pick up slack...

I just picked him at random - first guy I saw skimming list that I wouldn't want...figure maybe there are others. In a vacuum Dodgen is pretty good, not elite.

dacj, not to keep beating this horse, (I find it hard to disagree with you at all 95% of the time),,, but I don't think Dodgen even starts for that team... he's a spot-shooter comming off the bench for less than 20 mins with a 92 stamina and A ratings in off and def..... again, I don't think you get 2 fouls on him and I think their other guards light u up like a Roman-candle.... however, your inside game probably overpowers the rest of their unbalanced attack and you probably win.
all this is IMHO (of course), my point simply is I think some are dismissing these guys and their teams from habit, without even looking at how good some of them really are. Let them beat your butts in your own conference and take a couple of your usual NT spots from you and there will be alot more clammoring that SuperSimmy has gotten too big for his britches.

Actually with 240+ sims and 140 or so Humans... I guess it's pretty inevitable that some of these players are gonna end up on sim coached teams and some of these teams are going to end up pretty decent as those guys get to be jr's and sr's.

you may be right - like I said, I just grabbed the first guy at random that looked fishy...I didn't vet his bonafides. And though its impossible to prove, If he started, I'd like my chances at putting him on the bench - its a factor of the low ath and def and what I've observed...

I do expect that since FSS is prohibitive for a lot of D III schools and evals can be spurious in their info and are also expensive, that a lot of high potential guys go unrecruited and end up on simai teams...

Posted by kmasonbx on 12/20/2010 4:50:00 PM (view original):
Pretty sure it just means the guys the sim AIs get are low rated high potential guys that humans avoid because of low starting ratings only to see them improve a bunch under the sim controlled team.

it's this, plus some of these guys have huge holes, i'd never take a 99 per and 99 speed guy who was in the single digits in ath and defense

also, newsflash: LOTS of human guys recruit terribly

A couple of thoughts:

• Very nice job of compiling this information.  Thanks Jay.
• I estimated 60-65 players on this list.  There are typically 250 sims in DIII per year.  That's about 1 of these players four every sim teams.
• We've heard recent reports of 8-12 walkons for sim teams, but not all sim teams have huge number of walkons.  Why not?  Why not be consistent?
• As Jones has said (who I cannot keep up with no matter how hard I try) some of these guys are not really elite players even though they might have 1-2 great ratings in 1-2 categories.  Leon Baumann comes to mind as I look thru the list.   http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/GameLog.aspx?tid=7579&pid=1606894  He's servicable. He's played 80% of his games against other sims so his stats look respectable.  I think more than anything, a fairly high IQ player with average ratings will be servicable no matter what.