Posted by slid64er on 4/16/2012 5:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by agers on 4/16/2012 5:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by slid64er on 4/16/2012 5:21:00 PM (view original):
Vision is the most overrated aspect of the lower levels.

 

Are changes to vision more dramatic at levels higher than D3?

I have no idea.  I recruit who I see and don't worry about the rest.

 

I agree with slid64er here.  In D3 it really doesnt matter if you have the best class "ratings" wise.  I could take my middle of the road ratings class, with high potential, and have them beat your higher rated class in 4 years. 

It's not where you start, but where you finish.

Posted by agers on 4/16/2012 6:03:00 PM (view original):
Does anyone who uses Yatzr's tools and tracks player pool availability get above 87% player pool visibility?

If so, or anyone is interested in talking about this topic offline away from the stone throwers please sitemail me instead so we don't bother those who are not interested and we can keep the knowledge to ourselves rather than try to share info in a public forum which was my original intent.

If you've been using my tool for awhile, you should be able to follow this to get a quantitative look at where your vision was at then and now
http://www.whatifsports.com/forums/Posts.aspx?topicID=446555&page=1

Posted by dustin_lema on 4/16/2012 6:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by slid64er on 4/16/2012 5:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by agers on 4/16/2012 5:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by slid64er on 4/16/2012 5:21:00 PM (view original):
Vision is the most overrated aspect of the lower levels.

 

Are changes to vision more dramatic at levels higher than D3?

I have no idea.  I recruit who I see and don't worry about the rest.

 

I agree with slid64er here.  In D3 it really doesnt matter if you have the best class "ratings" wise.  I could take my middle of the road ratings class, with high potential, and have them beat your higher rated class in 4 years. 

It's not where you start, but where you finish.

Yeh, but why do one when you can do both?  Why would anyone assume that i am ignoring the basics of the game such as attribute improvement?
Keep doing whatcha doing I guess. 

Posted by agers on 4/16/2012 6:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dustin_lema on 4/16/2012 6:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by slid64er on 4/16/2012 5:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by agers on 4/16/2012 5:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by slid64er on 4/16/2012 5:21:00 PM (view original):
Vision is the most overrated aspect of the lower levels.

 

Are changes to vision more dramatic at levels higher than D3?

I have no idea.  I recruit who I see and don't worry about the rest.

 

I agree with slid64er here.  In D3 it really doesnt matter if you have the best class "ratings" wise.  I could take my middle of the road ratings class, with high potential, and have them beat your higher rated class in 4 years. 

It's not where you start, but where you finish.

Yeh, but why do one when you can do both?  Why would anyone assume that i am ignoring the basics of the game such as attribute improvement?
Keep doing whatcha doing I guess. 

Nobody is assuming anything.  Of course you know the basics of the game, you just won an NC.  Our point is that vision isn't as important as you seem to make it out to be.  As you said yourself, out of those 20 recruits, only 1 or 2 of them are actually worth recruiting over the vision you already have.  That says it all.  DIII is all about finding the best potential.  I can guarantee you that most of the players that will be the best in your world by their Junior-Senior years are already in your vision.  We're not trying to attack your experience or throw stones at you; this is just how we feel about vision, and we think it's not a big deal.

Posted by agers on 4/16/2012 5:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by flexmagnum on 4/16/2012 5:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by agers on 4/16/2012 5:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by slid64er on 4/16/2012 5:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by agers on 4/16/2012 5:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by slid64er on 4/16/2012 5:21:00 PM (view original):
Vision is the most overrated aspect of the lower levels.

 

Are changes to vision more dramatic at levels higher than D3?

I have no idea.  I recruit who I see and don't worry about the rest.

 

OK.  So you don't know and you don't care?  Thanks for dropping in on the post with your value added.  Carry on.

Him - 33 Titles

You - 1

Maybe you should listen to the man.

Just a thought.

Carry on

Why does it always come down to that? 
There are some who are actually interested in this topic, not just interested in board bashing.
Anyways, I'm happy with my results so far.  Quite happy.

Slider = 33
Me = 1 (just started playing)
You = 0 (700 games played)

If you have no interest in this topic just move along please rather than throw stones.

You - Just started playing watered down, user ghost town game.

Me - Played 700 games with old, understood engine with many of the best people to ever play.


You're not special. And I am interested in this topic, why do you think I said maybe you should consider listening to Reid's point instead of bashing him like he's irrelevant.

Glass house kid

Posted by yatzr on 4/16/2012 6:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by slid64er on 4/16/2012 5:21:00 PM (view original):
Vision is the most overrated aspect of the lower levels.

 

I disagree with this.  High vision makes it so that you almost never have to deal with sims when recruiting players.  I never had an easier time recruiting than when I had very high vision in D2 (I think it was like 49 wins in 3 seasons).

Why would you not have to deal with SIMS?

Posted by agers on 4/16/2012 6:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by onside on 4/16/2012 6:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by agers on 4/16/2012 6:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dustin_lema on 4/16/2012 6:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by slid64er on 4/16/2012 5:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by agers on 4/16/2012 5:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by slid64er on 4/16/2012 5:21:00 PM (view original):
Vision is the most overrated aspect of the lower levels.

 

Are changes to vision more dramatic at levels higher than D3?

I have no idea.  I recruit who I see and don't worry about the rest.

 

I agree with slid64er here.  In D3 it really doesnt matter if you have the best class "ratings" wise.  I could take my middle of the road ratings class, with high potential, and have them beat your higher rated class in 4 years. 

It's not where you start, but where you finish.

Yeh, but why do one when you can do both?  Why would anyone assume that i am ignoring the basics of the game such as attribute improvement?
Keep doing whatcha doing I guess. 

Nobody is assuming anything.  Of course you know the basics of the game, you just won an NC.  Our point is that vision isn't as important as you seem to make it out to be.  As you said yourself, out of those 20 recruits, only 1 or 2 of them are actually worth recruiting over the vision you already have.  That says it all.  DIII is all about finding the best potential.  I can guarantee you that most of the players that will be the best in your world by their Junior-Senior years are already in your vision.  We're not trying to attack your experience or throw stones at you; this is just how we feel about vision, and we think it's not a big deal.

Don't worry, won't bother ya anymore i've taken this offline.

But, FYI, the gains i made in vision were SIGNIFICANTLY more substantial on much lesser incremental improvements in wins in prior years which allowed the talent visible to me to increase at a rapid rate which i think is (among other reasons) why my team improved so fast.  I thought a larger portion of the last 15% of the D3 player pool would be available and i was just trying to figure out why they weren't that's all -- may depend on participation level at D2, don't know.  For those who do track vision and who comes incrementally into view are playing with additional information that is quite relevant.  Yatzr knows this, and i know a few others do as well.  I'm out, sorry to bother y'all.  Just funny how you come on with intentions to share and the opposite ends up happening.

Another example of diminishing returns.

agers, just so you know, I don't give a hoot how much NCs flex has won. All I know is, when he speaks, listen, because he knows what he is talking about. Same with slid64er, yatzr, and the like. Every person who has posted in this thread has a vast amount of knowledge, and even if they don't have as many NCs as you, doesn't mean they don't know more than you.

Posted by kevintam90 on 4/16/2012 9:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by yatzr on 4/16/2012 6:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by slid64er on 4/16/2012 5:21:00 PM (view original):
Vision is the most overrated aspect of the lower levels.

 

I disagree with this.  High vision makes it so that you almost never have to deal with sims when recruiting players.  I never had an easier time recruiting than when I had very high vision in D2 (I think it was like 49 wins in 3 seasons).

Why would you not have to deal with SIMS?

If you used Yatzr's tool you'd understand.

I still have last year's recruiting that I updated using Yatzr's tool on the last day of recruiting.  For D-III, of the 75 top QB's ranked by Guess (and none of these guys were anywhere near my vision) 15 were undecided, 1 signed with a D-III team and 59 signed to schools in upper divisions.  Many of those guys were signed by SIMS in upper divisions. 

For WR, 1 of the top 66 was signed by a D-III school, 8 undecided and 57 were signed by upper divisions.   

I would guess that your vision is about as high as it can go, it's just that nobody can see 100% of the D-III recruits.

Posted by kevintam90 on 4/16/2012 9:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by yatzr on 4/16/2012 6:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by slid64er on 4/16/2012 5:21:00 PM (view original):
Vision is the most overrated aspect of the lower levels.

 

I disagree with this.  High vision makes it so that you almost never have to deal with sims when recruiting players.  I never had an easier time recruiting than when I had very high vision in D2 (I think it was like 49 wins in 3 seasons).

Why would you not have to deal with SIMS?

The SIMs obey their school's vision.  There are usually not any SIMs on schools with high vision, so there will be no sims on high vision recruits.

Posted by saad1000 on 4/16/2012 9:32:00 PM (view original):
I still have last year's recruiting that I updated using Yatzr's tool on the last day of recruiting.  For D-III, of the 75 top QB's ranked by Guess (and none of these guys were anywhere near my vision) 15 were undecided, 1 signed with a D-III team and 59 signed to schools in upper divisions.  Many of those guys were signed by SIMS in upper divisions. 

For WR, 1 of the top 66 was signed by a D-III school, 8 undecided and 57 were signed by upper divisions.   

I would guess that your vision is about as high as it can go, it's just that nobody can see 100% of the D-III recruits.

That's what i am concluding as well, i am just surprised that there was so little ceiling room left when i went from 41 wins to 46 wins.  I am disappointed that vision doesn't reach up higher into those last 15% of "supposedly" D3 eligible recruits.

Posted by saad1000 on 4/16/2012 9:32:00 PM (view original):
I still have last year's recruiting that I updated using Yatzr's tool on the last day of recruiting.  For D-III, of the 75 top QB's ranked by Guess (and none of these guys were anywhere near my vision) 15 were undecided, 1 signed with a D-III team and 59 signed to schools in upper divisions.  Many of those guys were signed by SIMS in upper divisions. 

For WR, 1 of the top 66 was signed by a D-III school, 8 undecided and 57 were signed by upper divisions.   

I would guess that your vision is about as high as it can go, it's just that nobody can see 100% of the D-III recruits.

I never paid close attention until I got to D2.  I wonder if there's just a much larger gap between D2 and D1AA than there is between D3 and D2.  At D2, it was pretty rare for a recruit in my vision to get signed by a D1AA school.  

Posted by agers on 4/16/2012 9:38:00 PM (view original):

Posted by saad1000 on 4/16/2012 9:32:00 PM (view original):
I still have last year's recruiting that I updated using Yatzr's tool on the last day of recruiting.  For D-III, of the 75 top QB's ranked by Guess (and none of these guys were anywhere near my vision) 15 were undecided, 1 signed with a D-III team and 59 signed to schools in upper divisions.  Many of those guys were signed by SIMS in upper divisions. 

For WR, 1 of the top 66 was signed by a D-III school, 8 undecided and 57 were signed by upper divisions.   

I would guess that your vision is about as high as it can go, it's just that nobody can see 100% of the D-III recruits.

That's what i am concluding as well, i am just surprised that there was so little ceiling room left when i went from 41 wins to 46 wins.  I am disappointed that vision doesn't reach up higher into those last 15% of "supposedly" D3 eligible recruits.

The red recruits in the tool are not necessary D3 eligible recruits.  The tool actually does a search on D2 recruits to find them.  When you have high vision, the recruits you see are actually all the D3 recruits plus the low end of the D2 recruits.
Here's my weak attempt at a visual of how this works.

|...................D3 Recruits.....................|................D2 Recruits................|..........D1AA Recruits..........|........D1A Recruits......|
|................................Your Vision.............................|