3-point setting Topic

yanks250125
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Posted by emy1013 on 6/19/2012 2:57:00 AM (view original):
Posted by yanks250125 on 6/18/2012 9:29:00 PM (view original):
Posted by spasticity on 6/18/2012 4:42:00 PM (view original):
Just to make sure, you don't have the player distro set to all 0's right?  The 3 pt settings get ignored if you do that.  Otherwise, yeah that shouldn't be happening.
i couldn't disagree with that more.  My coe team had everyone set to 0s for every single game of the season and look at the result.  pretty self explanatory
Of course, the all zeroes could be why a team that good has six losses too. (wink, wink)

Never really understood the all zeroes method.  We don't have much control over our teams as it is, why take away one of the most important (if not THE most important) tools we have?  I guess I can see it for a game or two to try to determine who the engine likes as scorers, but a whole season?  I don't know, to each his own I guess.  I just like to have as much control over my players as possible.
i wasn't saying it was the way to go or boast about how good the team is.  just trying to show that even by using all 0's, you still have control of how often someone launches 3's
6/19/2012 7:14 AM
emy1013
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I know Yanks, that's why there was the little "wink, wink" at the end.
6/19/2012 8:36 AM
abitaamber
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I'm never thought that a -2 setting meant that guys wouldn't shoot 3s completely, and I've never seen the results that would suggest so.  With frontcout players...yes, it usually completely prevents it.  But with guards, I commonly see them shoot 1 or 2 3s a game (in the normal flow of the game, not half-court heaves, or late game situations).  6 does seem a bit odd, but a -2 is not a complete preventive method.
6/19/2012 9:34 AM
spasticity
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Posted by abitaamber on 6/19/2012 9:34:00 AM (view original):
I'm never thought that a -2 setting meant that guys wouldn't shoot 3s completely, and I've never seen the results that would suggest so.  With frontcout players...yes, it usually completely prevents it.  But with guards, I commonly see them shoot 1 or 2 3s a game (in the normal flow of the game, not half-court heaves, or late game situations).  6 does seem a bit odd, but a -2 is not a complete preventive method.
I strongly disagree with this and what yanks is saying.  I mean I can't dispute whatever you guys are seeing with your teams, but this is absolutely not what I have seen and continue to see.  When I put a guy at -2, he takes NO 3s except for desperation shots.  And that applies to bigs as well as guards.

Look at my J&W team.  I've had everyone except for two players on -2 all season.  The other 9 have combined for exactly 9 attempts from 3 in 20 games, all of which were either halfcourt shots or trailing in the last 30 seconds shots.

And whenever I briefly use all 0s for whatever reason, it definitely does NOT work the same way for me.
6/19/2012 10:24 AM
spasticity
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I took a closer look at the OP's team and it looks like the player in question who took six 3's on -2 was an 86 Per guard.  I honestly can't say I've ever used a -2 on a player with Per that high, so I can't really comment on whether that has been happening or not.  It seems like maybe the high Per is overriding the setting, though.  And I definitely think -2 should mean NO 3's, not "no 3's unless you have a high Per rating."
6/19/2012 10:54 AM
dukenilnil
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From what I recall from a Dev chat a while back, -2 (or +2 or the others) doesn't have a blanket impact, it's more of a leaning. The leaning is stronger for a players listed position. Thus, -2 at PF and C means a broader prohibition that -2 for a SG. Additionally, the players natural ability (LP and PER) and the defensive set also factor in. Thus, a SG with a great per, not so great LP against a high negative defense (or a very weak defender) may shot a fair number of 3s during a game/season even set at -2. That said, 6 seems like a lot (unless the guy shot 30 times or something).
6/19/2012 1:05 PM
abitaamber
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 I honestly can't say I've ever used a -2 on a player with Per that high, so I can't really comment on whether that has been happening or not.  It seems like maybe the high Per is overriding the setting, though.  And I definitely think -2 should mean NO 3's, not "no 3's unless you have a high Per rating."

On My SC team through 3 games, Smallwood (65PE) is set at -2, and he has taken 5 3s in 3 games.  You can disagree all you want, but -2 does not absolutely prevent guards from taking 3s.

6/19/2012 1:24 PM
dacj501
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I also believe that the last update made it so the type of shot is a function of the ratio of lp::per and that the +/- setting modifies that, so a high per, low lp player would still be expected to shoot some threes, even at -2...if I understand it correctly...
6/19/2012 1:59 PM
emy1013
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It's strange how the setting seems to be working differently for different teams/coaches.  I've found that when I set a player to -2, he never shoots a three (save for those of the last second, desperation variety).  Weird.
6/19/2012 2:00 PM
dacj501
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Posted by emy1013 on 6/19/2012 2:00:00 PM (view original):
It's strange how the setting seems to be working differently for different teams/coaches.  I've found that when I set a player to -2, he never shoots a three (save for those of the last second, desperation variety).  Weird.
how many players with 86 per do you set to -2? I'm guessing that is skewing the responses somewhat...
6/19/2012 2:23 PM
zbrent716
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According to CS, he was set to 0 for that game. I have no recollection of changing it, and he was set for -2 the game before (8 shots, no threes) and the game after (3 shots, no threes), but apparently he was different for that game in between.

As for -2 generally, it has ( in my experience) effectively prevented guards from shooting 3s (absent end of half/desperation time), which is why I was so surprised to see 6 go up when (I thought) the guy was at -2.
6/19/2012 2:27 PM
emy1013
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Posted by dacj501 on 6/19/2012 2:23:00 PM (view original):
Posted by emy1013 on 6/19/2012 2:00:00 PM (view original):
It's strange how the setting seems to be working differently for different teams/coaches.  I've found that when I set a player to -2, he never shoots a three (save for those of the last second, desperation variety).  Weird.
how many players with 86 per do you set to -2? I'm guessing that is skewing the responses somewhat...

You're probably right.  I do think that a player's LP/Per does affect whether he shoots threes or not.  I've had several PF's who were 90+ LP and got into the high 50's/low 60's Per who I'd set to a -1 who still wouldn't shoot a three.  SF's who were 80's LP/60 Per set at -1 who would barely shoot threes, so yes, I think a player's ratings and/or position could play a role in his shot selection.

Now with guards who had Perimeter ratings in say the 50's or 60's (or lower), a -2 seemed to stop them from shooting threes entirely.

6/19/2012 2:33 PM
llamanunts
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emy, that's what I see.  I have a PG who's played about 2000 minutes at -2.  PER 66, LP 20's.  He's taken 3 threes in his career.
6/19/2012 3:37 PM
abitaamber
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I suspect ultra-defensive settings can also affect this a bit.
6/19/2012 3:40 PM
spasticity
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http://www.whatifsports.com/knowledgebase/KB_Article_Details.aspx?kbid=324

This is the help section on individual 3-point settings and it describes exactly how it has always worked for me since they came out with the individual settings. 

"-2: Never take a 3 pt. shot unless it's a desperation shot"

What's the point in having -2 if they're still shooting 3s in the flow of the offense?  That's what -1 is for.  -2 should be "if you shoot a 3 that's not at the buzzer, I'm sitting your @ss on the bench."

I'll have to test this out with a 90+ Per guy.  I'm positive I've never set a player like that to -2, so maybe I've just never seen it.
6/19/2012 3:55 PM
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