Tell me how this class is? (D1) Topic

I don't think he means to never fill your schollies, but simply don't settle for some below-average bench player just because you feel you HAVE to fill your schollies.
7/16/2012 9:44 AM
I agree with the idea because I do it at D3 with a high level of success. Maybe I was too conservative but I was leery of getting into battles with 6 scholarships because I have read that D1 is a blood bath. There were a couple guys that got picked up by C or C+ D1 programs. Is it easy to battle a school of that nature? I was looking at scholarship money and post season money to determine if it is something I should do. 

I still feel these guys will be a significant upgrade for Davidson and I know I won't be NT dancing anytime soon, but I hope to be at C or C- in 3-4 years. Is this a reasonable expectation? 
7/16/2012 10:15 AM
I appreciate all the help guys!
7/16/2012 11:09 AM
Posted by gvsujulius on 7/16/2012 10:15:00 AM (view original):
I agree with the idea because I do it at D3 with a high level of success. Maybe I was too conservative but I was leery of getting into battles with 6 scholarships because I have read that D1 is a blood bath. There were a couple guys that got picked up by C or C+ D1 programs. Is it easy to battle a school of that nature? I was looking at scholarship money and post season money to determine if it is something I should do. 

I still feel these guys will be a significant upgrade for Davidson and I know I won't be NT dancing anytime soon, but I hope to be at C or C- in 3-4 years. Is this a reasonable expectation? 
GSV, it is definitely possible to win a battle against a C or C+ school when you have 6 open scholarships. 

In my first year recruiting at Morgan State, I had a C- prestige and 5 open scholarships. I won a battle against an A- BCS school and a mid-major for one player. My second year I had a C prestige and 6 open scholarships. I won a battle vs a B prestige BCS school. 

That leads into a point I wanted to make. When you have a high number of open scholarships at low D1, be aggressive! 5 or 6 open scholarships=POWER. People don't like battling a team like that. Even if someone does try to battle, don't just lie down if it's a player you like.

With 5 or 6 open scholarships, you should try and sign 2-3 cheap players and then spend the bulk of your money on 1-2 stars. To get those stars, you can do one of two things 1) get tight early and save a chunk of money to protect them against poachers, or 2) become the poacher and take a player from vulnerable mid majors or BCS schools. (Knowing what makes a school "vulnerable" is an essential skill to learn in D1). 

I've used both strategies at low D1 and been effective.

7/16/2012 11:50 AM
Work to fill ten total scholarships, then after those are secured bargain hunt with what you have left ...
7/16/2012 12:06 PM

Well I just added Steve Dison to round out my class. I battled a C+ prestige D1 program so I must be doing something right with him. http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/RecruitProfile/Scouting.aspx?rid=2431394

ATH 53 (avg)
SPD 43 (low)
Reb  62 (high-high)
Def 63 (high)
SB 42 (high)
LP 30 (high - high)
PER 19
BH 40
PAS 15
STA 74 (high)
DUR 68 (high)
FT% 65%
OVR 566


 

7/16/2012 2:08 PM
I've found that it's helpful to have a guy like this on the team.

I don't think you can win without it.
7/16/2012 2:37 PM
When it comes to battles at a low prestige DI school its all about the distance. You can dig around the forums and find all the charts of the different prices at different distances, and the different "effort" levels based on prestige. I'm just going to throw some numbers in as examples, but let's say you are D+ and you want to battle against someone that is C+. If the C+ prestige gives that coach a multiplier of 1.5 (just an example) then he is essentially getting 1.5 campus visits for every 1 you get. That means in order to get the same effect for the same amount of money you would need to be spending 66% of what he is on each campus visit. If you look at the distance/price charts and see that at your distance you are paying 80% of what the other coach is paying, you're either going to have to spend more money or you won't be able to win the battle. If you see that your CVs cost 50% of his then you probably have a good shot.

Sorry for the long explanation (and god forbid bringing math into the conversation :/ ) but I think this illustrates the point that its all about taking all of the factors into consideration when deciding if you should battle for a player or move on and find someone else.
7/16/2012 4:01 PM
Posted by caesari on 7/16/2012 2:37:00 PM (view original):
I've found that it's helpful to have a guy like this on the team.

I don't think you can win without it.

+1 This is the key to winning at low D1. Gotta have these kind of guys.

7/17/2012 12:10 AM
Um, did I miss something-- I was excited to learn what kind of guy I needed and I got Rick Rolled?  Was that supposed to happen or can you resend that link?
7/17/2012 9:01 PM
LOL yes, that was supposed to happen. Sorry 
7/17/2012 11:27 PM
Just an update on how some of the players turned out...

http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=12835

- Steve Dison is currently at 874 overall, I know that isn't everything but he averages 15 ppg and 7 rebounds at PF.
- Patrick Surface turned out to be a pretty good SF
- Black was a mistake and I thought about cutting him before the year but he was a capable backup.

11/6/2012 2:46 PM
Posted by tkimble on 7/15/2012 11:50:00 PM (view original):
Advice for low D1 schools (in the Ds):

1) You should rarely (if ever) fill all your scholarships.  Go big or go home, that's the only way you're going to improve.  Don't just take a guy because you don't want to come away with nothing.  Most of the time, nothing is better than a crappy big man because that big man is on campus the next four years and a walk-on is only there for 1.

2) You shouldn't ever come away with a well rounded recruit because that probably means he's not good enough anywhere to be effective.  Find guys with extreme strengths and try to set off their weaknesses.  

3) Find the low-rated guys with high-high potentials because taking a big man with 20 LP but  high-high is a lot better than taking a big man with 45 LP and low-high potential because only one of them has a chance at being an elite scorer.  Low D1 in all about high-high potential because that is where your studs come from.  

4) GO INTERNATIONAL!!!!!!  These guys are the high-risk high-reward players and that's exactly what you need.  The bigger schools don't want to deal with most unranked and seemingly untalented international guys because it's a risk they can't really afford to take.  They can find these same types of lowly ranked guys locally, except they know the local guys have great potential and so they take them.  As a lowly ranked D1 school, it's very hard to get a local guy with a bunch of high potentials, but it is SO MUCH EASIER if you go overseas.  Yea, most international guys you scout are going to be ****, but once in a while you find a guy that has high-high potential EVERYWHERE.  Normally, this guy would go to a big 6 school, but since they have no idea of his potentials, you can scoop up this international gem and dominate your conference.
this is great advice, really all you need to know to get started in d1. well, assuming you are aware how significant d1 prestige is (very significant). i think the first 3 are common advice, but the 4th, not so much. its a great way to go because you know you cant really get in all in battles. so, you are better off to spend your money gaining information - and then take who you can get without all in battles (which you mostly will lose when you have low prestige). between FSS scouting and evals for national players, there is only so much you can spend - but 3 evals to 5 different internationals, thats a little over 10K right there - an expense most are not willing to take on, so there are always some hidden gems in the international space.
11/6/2012 2:55 PM
I agree with not filling all the schollies and it is something I will change in the future because I don't even play a rotation that deep. I have been pretty happy with the progress at Davidson taking them from D prestige to C in 4 years and I imagine I will move to C+ this off-season with an NT trip. My goal is to move to a Big 6 school at some point, I feel I am definitely on the right track. This year I was recruiting players that are far better then my first year here, better prestige and some D1 recruiting experience helps!
11/6/2012 3:06 PM
you are on good path. keep doing your thing, watch for down years (they hurt with this kind of baseline) and you'll get there.
11/6/2012 3:23 PM
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